1850 Tournament List and Comments

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1850 Tournament List and Comments

Post by Alphadecay on Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:41 am

I thought I'd post an 1850 list I've had success with the past few months for others to consider or give their two-bits on:

List Total: 1849pts
HQ (219pts):
Coteaz (Prescience and 1 random spell from Divination)
Ordo Malleus Inquisitor (Terminator armor, Daemon Hammer, 3xServo Skulls, Psyker - Prescience)

Troops (974pts):
2 x 10 Grey Knight Strike Squad (Psybolt, 2xPsycannon, 2xHammer, 5xSword, 1xHaberd: Justicar)
5 Grey Knight Terminators (1xPsycannon, 1xHammer, 3xHalberd, 1xWarding Staff: Justicar, OMI goes here)
12 x Inquisitorial Henchmen (2xServitor:Multimelta, 2xJokaero, 8xWarror Acolyte:Carapace, Hot-Shot Lasgun, Coteaz goes here)

Fast Attack (256pts):
StormRaven (Side Sponson Bolters, Assault Cannon, Multimelta, Psybolt, Searchlight)

Heavy Support (400pts):
2x Dreadknight (Incinerator, Psycannon)

Deployment: Coteaz always takes the Strategic warlord traits. When you play this list against volume of fire (Ork Lootaz, IG) I generally reserve the two strike squads and the Terminator squad. Whether the Terminators go in the StormRaven or not depends on whether I think I'll need my StormRaven in a different side of the board than the Terminators such that I can't drop them off along the way to whatever I need to kill with the StormRaven. The Dreadknights serve to draw fire and kill things (the only thing they don't kill well is a flyer). Coteaz and friends go in the rear, in cover on an objective and with good line of sight. With the Jokaros, you have a decent chance to get the +12" range option but often I get the roll two and get better armor saves or invulnerable saves. The invulns are really nice when you might face Helldrakes or other templates weapons. Use the Servo Skulls to draw enemy movement into the line of fire and to give you movement options for the Strike Squads/Terminators. Bonus is that the Heavy Psycannons for the Dreadknights and Mindstrike missiles for the StormRaven scatter less.

List Choices:
I do not use Rhinos, Razorbacks or Dreadnoughts due to their ease of getting first blood. You could drop one of the Daemon Hammers in each GKSS, but I like the redundancy. You could also drop the Hot Shot lasguns on the Warrior Acolytes, but the assault/deepstrike deterrant from their re-rollable rapid fire AP3 is plain nasty. Keep their Carapace armor as they basically become a 13 point marine with 3+ saves, AP3 and possibly rending with the right Jokaero rolls. The Acolytes really turn the Coteaz unit into a tarpit if anyone gets into your backfield - which gives you time to respond with a GKSS or a Dreadknight. I've never had that unit wiped out in one turn and in the past 10 matches Coteaz has yet to die. I don't know what you'd do with the 60pts you'd get from dropping the extra hammer/hot shot lasguns, maybe swords on the Dreadknights but they are already expensive enough as it is.

As for the Dreadknights, I much prefer the possible AP2/anti-vehicle/anti-horde of the Psycannon than any other option. Although I've actually had the Psilencer work out for me, the low strength and lack of rending really limits the utility of the Dreadknight. The extra wounds it may cause in overwatch (or glancing AV10 flyers) just wasn't worth it compared to the Psycannon in my usage. I also do not use the sword (although I'd really like to) as it really pushes the Dreadknight into an assault role (as I just spent 50 points on something that must assault to get its value back) and I have been more than happy having the Dreadknight sit back and shoot - assaulting only when needed (Mega-Armored Nobz, Chaos Spawn, Terminators).

The second inquisitor is (in my view) a cheap additional psycannon that gives my Terminators constant re-rolls to hit and 3 Look Out Sir ablative wounds on a 2+/5+ save. The Justicar handles all challenge needs with his 2+ invuln as the inquisitor just dies too easily to S6+ (easy to get these days with axes and so forth). The Justicar is great - he's taken challenges from multiple nasty HQs and let the OMI hammer things to death.

Notable Wins/Combat Results:
(4 games vs Orks) Nowadays you see a number of Dakka Jets and Weirdboys to give multiple Waaaghs. This volume of fire really hurts the 3+ save troops. I generally go second against these lists so I can kill their jets. If there are more than one jet I target one with the Multimelta and Power of the Machine Spirit the Assault Cannon at another. Unless I can get good LOS blocking, I reserve my GKSS. Against MegaArmored Nobz - you have to get the Dreadknights into combat with those as they get insta killed by the S10 AP2. You can try and force weapon them with a GKSS, but they'll still get FNP rolls on those attacks. Another priority target for the Dreadknights is Lootaz (again due to their volume of fire).

(4 games vs Chaos) If its a Helldrake list I play it like the Dakka Jet approach above (reserve GKSS, go second, kill with StormRaven). Other than that I've really not struggled against Chaos lists. Their marines die to Psycannons quite nicely and the Henchman squad puts out enough re-rollable AP2 to kill 4 terminators in one go. If there are Spawn get the Dreadknights into combat with them and remember to activate the Nemesis Doomfists to instant kill them once you get wounds onto them. Fun anecdote - Coteaz and the Henchmen faced off against two squads of 5 Spawn (later getting help from a Dreadknight) and the Warrior Acolytes held their own as ablative wounds for 3 turns while Coteaz killed one or two spawn a turn with his hammer.

(1 game vs Daemons) Remember to Dark Excommunicate with the Dreadknights. One Dreadknight turned a combat with 2 squads of 15 Daemonettes into a bloodbath (no rending attacks, etc).

(1 game vs Eldar) The list I had the most trouble with was a Farseer/Pathfinder group. Obviously the Runes of Warding hurts, along with the 2+ re-rollable cover saves on Snipers. All I could do was run the Dreadknights at them to flush them out with the Incinerators.

Final thought - what I hate about this list: although it is effective and not spammy (e.g. Purifiers), it doesn't use many of the things that brought me to the GK codex (assassins, paladins, variety of henchman options, etc..). At then end of the day, that's probably a reasonable end result when your goal is to try and win an 1850 tourney instead of playing a fluffy story-based campaign.


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Re: 1850 Tournament List and Comments

Post by Guest on Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:28 pm

Yeah not the most over powered list. Few things you could improve on. Ill post those up when I got more time.

Welcome by the way. Should introduce yourself and say hello.

I don't know your skill level or those of who you play against but it's clearly not tournament level. >.<


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Re: 1850 Tournament List and Comments

Post by volvoe on Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:48 pm

I actually really like the list. The fact that you had a lot of testing on this list and even went back and forth deciding the options/loadout on it shows the dedication you had. Maybe you could even post a picture of your army! Very Happy

It seems that tournaments take the fun out of the game sometimes... I like purifiers, henchmen varients, and even draigo but they don't seem to be considered as good as what you're running. But I guess winning is more fun than losing. Well, I hope you do well in your tournament!

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Re: 1850 Tournament List and Comments

Post by Guest on Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:36 am

Ok, home and read your post again. First up. Against orks. You said that the orks get FNP Against our force weapons. I don't understand what you mean? Are you saying they get their FNP save against our attacks if we "activate" force weapons? Or are you saying, you hammerhand, they fail a save of 2+ and then they get their FNP save?

Le sigh... I like your argument about your dread knight but no. I disagree and you are using it wrong.

My feedback on your list. Take it or leave. If you want to play fluffy bunnies then ignore this. If you want a better output for you army or a better list then continue to read.

On Hq's: I really like you hq choices! They are cheap and cost effective. I can't complain really. They are bang for your buck. Double prescience is gold! Just a great support choice, and should be used as such.

On dread knights: you got 2 things right. 1. You took two. 2. You gave them heavy incinerators.
Apart from that. You Ballsed it up. Dread knights have become so, so great in 6th edition. With the changes to the weapon load out you can take a sword with 1 fist and get str10 re rolls to hit, wound and at ap2 without having to smash. So you strike at initiative 4 with your base attacks. Secondly , the NDK is a character and therefore you can challenge out the ork nob for example with the power klaw and kill him before he hurts you. What he refuses? That's cool. Rape the unit and he can't hurt you.
Thirdly, the NDK with the right load out is a little less then 270 I think. That's the personal teleporter, incinerator and sword. Or 1 = 1 lrc or 1 = 2 psyfle dreads. 2 = 4 psyfle dreads or 2 lrc. Always take 2. Always take the pt. why? 1, they enemy can focus fire one down quite easily. 2? They have to split fire. 8 wounds at toughness 6 with a 2+ 5++. The personal teleporter puts so much pressure on your opponent before the game has even started. He sees to ndk's kitted out and he has to rethink his whole strategy. If you shunt first turn or not. He has to either spread out which could be tactically bad for him, (example: leaving units isolated) or bunch up. In which case you shunt both and flame the crap out of them! Let him deal with both for a few turns, leaving the rest of your army free to manoeuvre into better fire lines, to objectives and so on. Or advance up the board to support maybe turn 3.

On termies: don't take termies. 6th edition just screams SHOOT ME! Our PAGK's have stormbolters!!! Stormbolters... 10 PAGK's for the price of 5 termies. Wtf? You're getting double the shots. For same price. And then stick the OMI in a squad and let rip. 2 hammers in the PAGK's is a total waste. Especially if you out the OMI in there. With the move to plasma and rapid firing over watch. Termies are a waste on points. Until we can take a storm shield and a NFW then don't take em.

On the Stormraven: I told some other noob, and ill say it again. 20 points for fucking psybolt ammo... Wtf?!? Not to mention the hurricane bolters. We have PAGK's with stormbolters?!?!? Not to mention, if might not even come on till turn 3 or 4. 250pts for you raven, that's a NDK. Your raven have the ability to take ap2 and ap1 weapons for free... No much else in our codex can. Dreads yes... But you should be taking auto cannons. The henchman... Sure. But nothing has the manoeuvrability of the storm raven. It can get to an enemy tank across the field. Still fire it's 2 TL weapons at full bs and be close to melta range. And it's now 50pts cheaper.

That's it for now.. I can't think of anything else but I'm sure I will later.


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Re: 1850 Tournament List and Comments

Post by first strike on Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:21 pm

The thing with feal no pain and force weapons is the old chicken of the egg argument, which comes first, I know my opp.
Dreadknights, they are close combat monsters now, use something else if you want firepower.
Termies are fine, they are more about surviving, so if you can not roll 1's they are fine.
Stormraven, well it is the only real anti air you have (coteaz and his squad can help).
first strike
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