In need of a slight trim
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first strike
jb317
6 posters
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In need of a slight trim
Hi folks,
After taking an 8 year hiatus from 40k, I've recently come back and started collecting GK. Even though I used to collect (Chaos) I consider myself an utter newb, especially after checking out the 6th edition book and seeing all the new rules!
Here's my first pop at a 1000 point list. It's coming in at 1058 however, so it needs to lose a bit of weight. I'm open to any suggestions both to how to get down to 1000 and also on the general structure and makeup of the list. Here goes:
HQ
Crowe (150 points)
Troops
Purifier Squad 1 (149 points)
2 x Halberds
1 x Psycannon
1 x Falchions
1 x master-crafted Daemon Hammer
Purifier Squad 2 (154 points)
2 x Halberds
2 x Psycannons
1 x master-crafted Daemon Hammer
Terminator Squad (225 points)
1 x Psycannon
4 x Halberds
1 x master-crafted Daemon hammer
Elites
Vindicare Assassin (145 points)
Heavy Support
Dreadknight (235 points)
1 x personal teleporter
1 x Nemesis Greatsword
1 x Heavy Incinerator
Cheers,
jb
After taking an 8 year hiatus from 40k, I've recently come back and started collecting GK. Even though I used to collect (Chaos) I consider myself an utter newb, especially after checking out the 6th edition book and seeing all the new rules!
Here's my first pop at a 1000 point list. It's coming in at 1058 however, so it needs to lose a bit of weight. I'm open to any suggestions both to how to get down to 1000 and also on the general structure and makeup of the list. Here goes:
HQ
Crowe (150 points)
Troops
Purifier Squad 1 (149 points)
2 x Halberds
1 x Psycannon
1 x Falchions
1 x master-crafted Daemon Hammer
Purifier Squad 2 (154 points)
2 x Halberds
2 x Psycannons
1 x master-crafted Daemon Hammer
Terminator Squad (225 points)
1 x Psycannon
4 x Halberds
1 x master-crafted Daemon hammer
Elites
Vindicare Assassin (145 points)
Heavy Support
Dreadknight (235 points)
1 x personal teleporter
1 x Nemesis Greatsword
1 x Heavy Incinerator
Cheers,
jb
jb317- Henchmen
- Number of posts : 105
Age : 35
Registration date : 2012-12-31
Re: In need of a slight trim
Loose the falchions, mastercrafted and replace the vindicare with a psyfle dread. That's about 30pts so far. And then the great sword
Guest- Guest
Re: In need of a slight trim
Thanks Arratak - I already know about the falchions being a bit of a waste. I liked the look so I glued them on before doing any research into their competitive efficiency.
From what I've read on the interwebs a vindicare is pretty lethal at low point games, hence why I picked him up. I was planning to include a psyfleman in my 1.5k list.
I could drop the greatsword from the NDK and be done with it. What do you think?
From what I've read on the interwebs a vindicare is pretty lethal at low point games, hence why I picked him up. I was planning to include a psyfleman in my 1.5k list.
I could drop the greatsword from the NDK and be done with it. What do you think?
jb317- Henchmen
- Number of posts : 105
Age : 35
Registration date : 2012-12-31
Re: In need of a slight trim
Ok, so you are going to go Crow and pay the Crow tax.
Lets look at what you have in Crow, Crow will rule the chalange, but the isue is getting him there, he cannot join a squad and is not eternal warrior so if your opp decides to take him out in a turn, then he is gone, so you will spend half the game in hiding until you take out the other guy's instant kill weapons.
You are starting the game down by 150 points (crow tax).
When going crow you must go crow all the way, not half way. Purifiers are great for their points but Crow is the Tax that adds to the points cost of every last one of them, so you want to spread it around and lessen the effect, so drop the dreadkinghts (good on the game now but expensive), the Assassian (exelent firepower but will go down in a stiff breeze to massed fire) and the terminators (still a solid unit but you are playing Crow). Add more purifiers, rifle dreads, 2 at this value, razorbacks with T.L.H.Bolters and psy bolts, (3 shots T.Linked at S6), and as many psycannons you can get.
So what I would look at is this
Crow
2x Psy Rifle Dreads
Purifier Squad 2 x Halberds, 2 x Psycannons, 1 x Daemon Hammer, Razorback with psybolts
Purifier Squad 2 x Halberds, 2 x Psycannons, 1 x Daemon Hammer, Razorback with psybolts
Purifier Squad 2 x Halberds, 1 x Psycannons, 1 x Daemon Hammer, Razorback with psybolts
Crow is about purifiers and max firepower (this is why you get to give 2 psycannons to every 5 guys)
The new game is all about shooting, and still having the speed to go get the objectives.
You asked about the structure of the list and this (in my opp) is how a Crow list needs to be structured.
Lets look at what you have in Crow, Crow will rule the chalange, but the isue is getting him there, he cannot join a squad and is not eternal warrior so if your opp decides to take him out in a turn, then he is gone, so you will spend half the game in hiding until you take out the other guy's instant kill weapons.
You are starting the game down by 150 points (crow tax).
When going crow you must go crow all the way, not half way. Purifiers are great for their points but Crow is the Tax that adds to the points cost of every last one of them, so you want to spread it around and lessen the effect, so drop the dreadkinghts (good on the game now but expensive), the Assassian (exelent firepower but will go down in a stiff breeze to massed fire) and the terminators (still a solid unit but you are playing Crow). Add more purifiers, rifle dreads, 2 at this value, razorbacks with T.L.H.Bolters and psy bolts, (3 shots T.Linked at S6), and as many psycannons you can get.
So what I would look at is this
Crow
2x Psy Rifle Dreads
Purifier Squad 2 x Halberds, 2 x Psycannons, 1 x Daemon Hammer, Razorback with psybolts
Purifier Squad 2 x Halberds, 2 x Psycannons, 1 x Daemon Hammer, Razorback with psybolts
Purifier Squad 2 x Halberds, 1 x Psycannons, 1 x Daemon Hammer, Razorback with psybolts
Crow is about purifiers and max firepower (this is why you get to give 2 psycannons to every 5 guys)
The new game is all about shooting, and still having the speed to go get the objectives.
You asked about the structure of the list and this (in my opp) is how a Crow list needs to be structured.
first strike- Grey Knight
- Number of posts : 409
Age : 48
Army : Grey Knights, Eldar, Space Wolves, High Elf
Registration date : 2012-02-08
Grey knight
stats:
Re: In need of a slight trim
Thank you first strike for your comprehensive response.
At first I considered a list almost identical to the one you recommend.
I understand it's probably the most competitive Crowe list at this point level, but it just doesn't have enough "character" for me. I want a balanced, flavorful army that wont make my local war-gamers roll their eyes when I turn up with psycannon spam.
I appreciate your input and I'm definitely going to consider at least 1 psyfleman dread now.
I'd like a happy medium between the brutal efficiency of your list and the fluffy/balance-ness of mine.
At first I considered a list almost identical to the one you recommend.
I understand it's probably the most competitive Crowe list at this point level, but it just doesn't have enough "character" for me. I want a balanced, flavorful army that wont make my local war-gamers roll their eyes when I turn up with psycannon spam.
I appreciate your input and I'm definitely going to consider at least 1 psyfleman dread now.
I'd like a happy medium between the brutal efficiency of your list and the fluffy/balance-ness of mine.
jb317- Henchmen
- Number of posts : 105
Age : 35
Registration date : 2012-12-31
Re: In need of a slight trim
I know the feeling, I will normaly run sub par list localy (and still have people (friends even) refues to play me), but if going to harder tournaments then the game needs to be uped.
If swithcing out a dreadknight for a dread then you can add razors or rhinos to the purifers (rhinos would be softer).
I have been playing grey knights for the last 8 years, when I was running the old codex, they were lineing up to play me, with the new one they just call me a cheese player, even when I play down to them, so dont expect players to say nice things about you no matter what you bring, it is still grey kinghts.
So Crow
Make the pruifiers one squad and add a rhino (psy bolts if you can afford them) you can combat squad them at deployment and still have them both in the rhino
Keep the terminators
Drop the dreadkinght and add a dreadnought
Assassian
If swithcing out a dreadknight for a dread then you can add razors or rhinos to the purifers (rhinos would be softer).
I have been playing grey knights for the last 8 years, when I was running the old codex, they were lineing up to play me, with the new one they just call me a cheese player, even when I play down to them, so dont expect players to say nice things about you no matter what you bring, it is still grey kinghts.
So Crow
Make the pruifiers one squad and add a rhino (psy bolts if you can afford them) you can combat squad them at deployment and still have them both in the rhino
Keep the terminators
Drop the dreadkinght and add a dreadnought
Assassian
first strike- Grey Knight
- Number of posts : 409
Age : 48
Army : Grey Knights, Eldar, Space Wolves, High Elf
Registration date : 2012-02-08
Grey knight
stats:
Re: In need of a slight trim
There's nothing stopping crowe sit in a transport if its got room. He's just not apart of the unit inside.
Guest- Guest
Re: In need of a slight trim
By "if it's got room" you mean it has to be entirely empty right? Since he's not an IC etc.
I was thinking of having a rhino advancing 6'' per movement, purifiers firing their psycannons out of the hatches, whilst Crowe moves as close to behind it as he can to block LoS. Or maybe use both Rhinos in the same manner since one by itself might be too narrow to do it alone?
The strategy would rely on my NDK tp'ing forward, drawing the fire that could potentially pop the rhinos (whilst hopefully doing some damage in the meantime) until they're close enough for Crowe to get into combat.
That's not to mention the vindi hopefully popping something equally as capable as opening up the rhinos before he goes down.
I was thinking of having a rhino advancing 6'' per movement, purifiers firing their psycannons out of the hatches, whilst Crowe moves as close to behind it as he can to block LoS. Or maybe use both Rhinos in the same manner since one by itself might be too narrow to do it alone?
The strategy would rely on my NDK tp'ing forward, drawing the fire that could potentially pop the rhinos (whilst hopefully doing some damage in the meantime) until they're close enough for Crowe to get into combat.
That's not to mention the vindi hopefully popping something equally as capable as opening up the rhinos before he goes down.
jb317- Henchmen
- Number of posts : 105
Age : 35
Registration date : 2012-12-31
Re: In need of a slight trim
No. It doesn't have to be entirely empty, you can have more then 1 squad in a vehicle. Providing there's room. Crowe and a squad can go in the same vehicle.
Usually people run the ndk's in pairs. I don't usually run ndk's at the moment. But 1 shunting up field and no moron is going to let it stand there, they will unload all the special weapons at it. With 2 doing it, they can't possibly kill both.
Usually people run the ndk's in pairs. I don't usually run ndk's at the moment. But 1 shunting up field and no moron is going to let it stand there, they will unload all the special weapons at it. With 2 doing it, they can't possibly kill both.
Guest- Guest
Re: In need of a slight trim
Really? I read all over the place that the only separate entities allowed to ride in the same transport are combat squads of the same unit.
jb317- Henchmen
- Number of posts : 105
Age : 35
Registration date : 2012-12-31
Re: In need of a slight trim
Sorry, page 78 of the rulebook. I mis read it
EDIT: wait no! Crowe can go in a transport, just not with another unit.
EDIT: wait no! Crowe can go in a transport, just not with another unit.
Guest- Guest
Re: In need of a slight trim
That was my understanding. He can jack a transport meant for another squad but only when it's unoccupied due to his non-IC status not allowing him to join said squad.
I think that's the route I'm going to go down. The relatively small size of the game boards at my local mean the purifiers probably wont need the rhino to get into decent positions anyway.
I think that's the route I'm going to go down. The relatively small size of the game boards at my local mean the purifiers probably wont need the rhino to get into decent positions anyway.
jb317- Henchmen
- Number of posts : 105
Age : 35
Registration date : 2012-12-31
Re: In need of a slight trim
Just remember the rhino isn't an assault vehicle. So any player worth his salt will get a turn of shooting Crowe to ribbons before he can do anything.
danflan1712- Stormtrooper
- Number of posts : 24
Age : 35
Registration date : 2012-09-19
Grey knight
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Re: In need of a slight trim
Not if you disembark Crowe then in the shooting phase go flat out with the rhino and screen Crowe
Guest- Guest
Re: In need of a slight trim
I will definitely note that tactic Arratak, thank you for mentioning it. Are there any other Crowe/Purifier tactics that you think are particularly pertinent/effective?
jb317- Henchmen
- Number of posts : 105
Age : 35
Registration date : 2012-12-31
Re: In need of a slight trim
Um yeah.... When I get free time to sit down... And I don't decide to paint, ill write up tactics for those units. Stay tuned to my grey knight tactica. The link is in my sig.
Guest- Guest
Re: In need of a slight trim
Will do, thanks again. : ]
jb317- Henchmen
- Number of posts : 105
Age : 35
Registration date : 2012-12-31
Re: In need of a slight trim
I'm just not to sure about this "Crowe" guy this whole tactic seems like you've got to hold his hand and babysit him just to even have a chance to make it across the table. Seems like a pretty weak Brotherhood Champion IMHO. I don't like to give away a "slay the warlord" without a fight.
Tiberian- Henchmen
- Number of posts : 112
Age : 42
Location : Eye of Terror
Army : Grey Knights, Tau, Orks
Registration date : 2012-01-16
Grey knight
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Re: In need of a slight trim
I'm not seeing where he isn't an ind. character and can't join units, where do you guys see that? Also, if he's assaulted does he usually make it out alive when his sword grants the enemy furious charge and re-roll failed to hit rolls?
Tiberian- Henchmen
- Number of posts : 112
Age : 42
Location : Eye of Terror
Army : Grey Knights, Tau, Orks
Registration date : 2012-01-16
Grey knight
stats:
Re: In need of a slight trim
He doesn't have the Independent Character special rule, thus preventing him from joining other units.
Rivan- Adeptus Moderatus
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Age : 55
Location : Currently on Titan
Army : Grey Knights 7th Brotherhood, Salamanders
Registration date : 2009-03-05
Grey knight
stats:
Re: In need of a slight trim
I never said he can join units did you rivan?
Simple... Don't let him get charged, of you do, you're a baddie.
Simple... Don't let him get charged, of you do, you're a baddie.
Guest- Guest
Re: In need of a slight trim
I ran Crowe twice and never again! I dropped him for Coteaz and henchmen warbands; far far more entertaining, Coteaz is 50 points cheaper and an Independent Character
I'm currently playing with single type henchmen warbands, but - when I first looked at the codex - I decided I wanted to run Inquis and I absolutely love it.
It is, however, a force that's inherently more chaotic than any Chaos force you'll ever encounter, but it's tons of fun and people will generally play you if you tell them that you're not spamming power armour or terminators...
PurityinFlames- Henchmen
- Number of posts : 167
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Registration date : 2012-11-29
Re: In need of a slight trim
PurityinFlames wrote:
I ran Crowe twice and never again!
Yeah.... I told you so?
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