one tacticia to teach them ... one tacticia to rule them all

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Re: one tacticia to teach them ... one tacticia to rule them all

Post by Rivan on Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:24 am

Good write up for the LRC! Thanks Arratak Smile


Last edited by Rivan on Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:44 am; edited 1 time in total

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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: one tacticia to teach them ... one tacticia to rule them all

Post by Vecuu on Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:07 am

Random Land Raider question since we're talking about it now.

If a LRC moves 6'', I know you get one weapon at full BS for moving at Combat Speed and another one for PotMS, but do sponson weapons, such as Hurricane Bolters, count as one or two weapon for the purpose of determining numbers of weapons fired?

Basically, if you move at 6'', can you get your 4 Assault cannon shots as well as 6 or 12 Bolter shots at full BS?

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Re: one tacticia to teach them ... one tacticia to rule them all

Post by Rivan on Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:32 am

If I'm not mistaken, each sponson counts as 1 weapon. Same goes for weapon destroyed results, only 1 sponson will get destroyed for each "weapon destroyed" result.

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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: one tacticia to teach them ... one tacticia to rule them all

Post by Vecuu on Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:42 am

That's what I was thinking. Makes it a little awkward to maneuver LRs.

I guess you can just 12'' move it the first turn, PotMS the Assault Cannon, Snapfire the Bolters, and next turn either just stay still and shoot everything at full BS or do whatever is appropriate for the situation.

Thankfully PotMS gives the Assault Cannons 36'' threat range, rather than the 30'' on something like a Razorback with an Assault Cannon.

I have yet to actually field a LR. I think I'll try to include one in my next game. Likely as a LRC.

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Re: one tacticia to teach them ... one tacticia to rule them all

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:46 pm

With a multi melta aswell. PotMS the multi melta, snap fire the TL assault cannon and hurricane bolters with psybolt ammo mind you.

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Re: one tacticia to teach them ... one tacticia to rule them all

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:18 pm

Anything else I should add to the landraider crusader.

I think we should do a post for each variant. Also posts for each henchman unit, each dedicated transport.

I personally don't want to write up the paladins and assassins .. My baist opinions will score them poorly.

I don't have great personal experience with a tech marine, so if someone would like to do that.

Ummmm that's all I can think of right now.

I'll also do the Stormraven, I don't want it to be over costed Razz

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Re: one tacticia to teach them ... one tacticia to rule them all

Post by Rivan on Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:29 pm

I can work on the paladins since I've used them in several GT's.

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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: one tacticia to teach them ... one tacticia to rule them all

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:57 pm

Oh I have no trouble writing tactica for them, but I'm likely to rate them a 2 for competitive play. Wink

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Re: one tacticia to teach them ... one tacticia to rule them all

Post by Rivan on Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:27 pm

It really depends on what other units you have to compliment them.

Granted it was in 5th ed, I brought 1750 list to a GT that looked like this:

GM w/ grenades
Coteaz
10 paladins (4 psycannons, banner)
10 GKSS (2 psycannons)
7 warband
LR
Ven Psyfleman dread

I actually placed quite high (4 wins, 1 draw, 1 loss).

Of course in 6th ed, its a little different but they can definitely be effective.

I'll do the write up but intend on giving them a 3 for now.

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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: one tacticia to teach them ... one tacticia to rule them all

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:52 pm

A three would be good. If only paladins could join units like wolf guard.

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Re: one tacticia to teach them ... one tacticia to rule them all

Post by Rivan on Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:53 pm

-Arratak- wrote:A three would be good. If only paladins could join units like wolf guard.

That would actually be sweet. They're pretty much equal to battle leaders anyway.

_________________
"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: one tacticia to teach them ... one tacticia to rule them all

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:59 pm

Pretty much.

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Re: one tacticia to teach them ... one tacticia to rule them all

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:02 am

I think I have to address a few things, maybe in this the thread or ill create a new one.

- strike squads and interceptors
- terminators/paladins

- Proper uses and tactics

The reason being, I understand people enjoy the hobby for different reasons, to collect cool models, to paint epic pieces, to have fun and socialise, to compete against another for a victor, competitiveness.

We all fit into one of these categories, but I feel I need to address certain issues, and since people think I'm a troll and a jerk I won't single them out in their threads anymore. Ill just add it to the "Codex: Grey Knights" thread somewhere in the tactica.

Perhaps I might add a new section of the unit description. Giving them a proper "class" so to speak. For example:

Unit type: infantry
Unit name: Strike squad
Rating: 5
Class: mid field support & scoring unit.

Or something along those lines. I think I also need to address deployment; going first and second. The differences, and other items of wargear. I think I also need to address more basics of 6th edition like the thread: "6th edition - what is it?"

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Re: one tacticia to teach them ... one tacticia to rule them all

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:32 am

Also, when reading the main tactica thread, if you see any great one liners. Quote them here and ill highlight them to stand out.

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Re: one tacticia to teach them ... one tacticia to rule them all

Post by Aubec le noir on Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:26 am

i would like to make some remarks :

about the LRC : does the strength of defensive have changed in 6th ?
If not the hurricane bolters with psybolts aren't defensive weapons anymore (S4 passed to 5) so you can't fire them if you move... scratch
i really have to take the time to read the BRB ! study Razz

about the rating of the units ... Arratak why not making different rates for one unit just like : Tournament rate /fluff rate/... cause the same unit could be differently appealing if you want to make a cutthroat tournament or a fluffy battle with pre-determined scenario ... scratch

My 2 cents
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Re: one tacticia to teach them ... one tacticia to rule them all

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:46 am

No they removed "defensive weapons" you can fire all weapons when moving 6" 1 at full bs the rest snap shots.

It used to be defensive weapons were str4 and lower, with psybolt ammo, we couldn't fire our hurricane bolters. So landraiders and vehicles with many weapons became more offensive. Less defensive with the hull points.

Edit: the idea and reason behind the thread in general was based on competitive play. And overall general useage.

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Re: one tacticia to teach them ... one tacticia to rule them all

Post by Thraxdown on Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:53 pm

-Arratak- wrote:No they removed "defensive weapons" you can fire all weapons when moving 6" 1 at full bs the rest snap shots.

But with the Land Raider you can use Power of the Machine Spirit to fire two at full ballistic skill, correct? Or am I reading that special rule wrong? Then if it moves between 6 and twelve you can use it to fire one at full bs and the rest snap fire.

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Re: one tacticia to teach them ... one tacticia to rule them all

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:49 pm

Your correct. I was just speaking in generel. Not everyone has potms.

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Re: one tacticia to teach them ... one tacticia to rule them all

Post by jb317 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:11 am

Personally I think the Tactica thread is more about personal opinion than it's namesake - tactics. It would be more useful to one such as myself (coming back to the game after a good few years hiatus) if it included more solid in-game tactics.

For example: the optimal way to disembark unit X from a rhino/razorback, and how to get the most range and cover from a disembarkation move in terms of movement and other (e.g. smoke, LoS, etc) rules.

Or how to position an NDK during a teleport-shunt for maximum damage. Prioritize LoS/cover in that situation? Or prioritize maximum flame (in the case of the heavy incin) + best precursor to assault move.

I guess I mean standard "go to" maneuvers that have been tried and tested that can be used directly during a game as opposed to subjective notions of varying degrees of how "awesome" a unit is.

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Re: one tacticia to teach them ... one tacticia to rule them all

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:24 pm

You raise a good point. But really what I was trying to achieve at the beginning of the thread was for new people to read and not make silly decisions when building an army list, etc.

I probably should look to include more "tactics" and other such things but it takes more time.

I will think about it, and try it soon.


Last edited by -Arratak- on Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:17 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: one tacticia to teach them ... one tacticia to rule them all

Post by Rivan on Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:14 pm

JB does raise a good point and I think that those "specific" game tactics should be included in the unit entries.

We should also remember that this thread should serve as a "guide" for all (specially new players) and give them a good idea on the strengths and weaknesses of each unit. Armed w/ good, factual and statistical information from this thread, a player, new or veteran, should be able to make informed decisions on building his/her list--whether they want a power list, a competitive list, a fluffy list, or a mixed competitive/fluffy list, etc.

This being said, we should stay away from putting too much emphasis on our personal views as to what units to take because they're better than other units Smile Pretty sure everyone will have their own view of what unit is better than what Razz

I am guilty of this sometimes because I love Terminators lol

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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: one tacticia to teach them ... one tacticia to rule them all

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:44 pm

I agree rivan, and that's why when rating units it's based on a dicision of majority votes, and when there have been disagreements we've discussed them.

That's right, this thread is a "guide" as I' m pretty sure I've stated in the open posts.

We also have to remember, and I used to say this in competitive world of Warcraft. "I can't play the game for you. It's not that hard." And it's sort of a disclaimer, even if we write superb tactics and awesome strategies, people will still lose. And then they will be like, "err your tactics suck!" But really, the player is just bad.

We could also list off every target in every codex from highest priority to kill to the lowest. But that all changes depending on mission/other units in combination etc. etc.

I'm happy to put more detail into it. Infact I even suggested a few things. It takes time.

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Re: one tacticia to teach them ... one tacticia to rule them all

Post by Rivan on Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:02 pm

-Arratak- wrote:I agree rivan, and that's why when rating units it's based on a dicision of majority votes, and when there have been disagreements we've discussed them.

That's right, this thread is a "guide" as I' m pretty sure I've stated in the open posts.

We also have to remember, and I used to say this in competitive world of Warcraft. "I can't play the game for you. It's not that hard." And it's sort of a disclaimer, even if we write superb tactics and awesome strategies, people will still lose. And then they will be like, "err your tactics suck!" But really, the player is just bad.

We could also list off every target in every codex from highest priority to kill to the lowest. But that all changes depending on mission/other units in combination etc. etc.

I'm happy to put more detail into it. Infact I even suggested a few things. It takes time.

Good thing we'll be around long enough to make this tactica thread a really comprehensive one Very Happy

_________________
"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: one tacticia to teach them ... one tacticia to rule them all

Post by Klomster on Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:52 pm

I realised i'm totally lazy and can't bother reading through this entire topic (not that it is a bad one, it seems to have many valueable tips and such, but i'm not really into the game.)

So help me out here, does this one deserve a sticky, there are actually unused stickied threads but they seem outdated.......

I could sticky this, or we could add only these ones.

Unit Type: Independent Character
Unit name: Inquisitor Coteaz
rating: 5

Brief Description: A Mastery 2 psyker, makes henchmen troops, allows his unit to shoot people coming in from reserves, can reroll the sieze the initiative/ force the opponent to. Comes equipped with artificer armour, master crafted damon hammer and a d6 shot str 4 gun, and he's cheap, really cheap.

Brief Tactica: For a measly 100pts Coteaz is the consumate support character, and should always be attached to a shooty unit. His ability to take 2 divination powers (especially the beloved Prescience) can turn any GK unit's shooting from good, to fantastic. Other powers such as ignoring cover or forcing your opponent to reroll saves are merely gravy. Remember prescience can be cast on any units within 12" not just his own, so if a friendly unit is about to get stuck in toss prescience on them and watch the carnage.

As a side note how are we going to handle tacticas for regular Inquisitors? Should we do one for each type( malleus/xenos/hereticus) and then mention builds in the article? or just do one for each build? I'm actually erring towards the second option since there are only really a few viable builds for Inquisitors imo.Unit Type: Independent Character
Unit name: Inquisitor Coteaz
rating: 5

Brief Description: A Mastery 2 psyker, makes henchmen troops, allows his unit to shoot people coming in from reserves, can reroll the sieze the initiative/ force the opponent to. Comes equipped with artificer armour, master crafted damon hammer and a d6 shot str 4 gun, and he's cheap, really cheap.

Brief Tactica: For a measly 100pts Coteaz is the consumate support character, and should always be attached to a shooty unit. His ability to take 2 divination powers (especially the beloved Prescience) can turn any GK unit's shooting from good, to fantastic. Other powers such as ignoring cover or forcing your opponent to reroll saves are merely gravy. Remember prescience can be cast on any units within 12" not just his own, so if a friendly unit is about to get stuck in toss prescience on them and watch the carnage.

As a side note how are we going to handle tacticas for regular Inquisitors? Should we do one for each type( malleus/xenos/hereticus) and then mention builds in the article? or just do one for each build? I'm actually erring towards the second option since there are only really a few viable builds for Inquisitors imo.

Regardless of what i am all for some stickied threads but it shouldn't become a clutter.
Perhaps remove the old stickies as well?

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Re: one tacticia to teach them ... one tacticia to rule them all

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:42 pm

Sorry klom, I don't follow you. This should probably be stickied for now, since its a topic that's very busy. And the main Codex grey knights thread. Both of those, as the whole project comes to a close this should be removed as a sticky. Depending on the discussion and decision. Since this is full of discussion. And the other is the cleaner and more set out final conclusion

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Re: one tacticia to teach them ... one tacticia to rule them all

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