HELP! Can't decide on GK list!! 1750

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HELP! Can't decide on GK list!! 1750

Post by Corennus on Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:05 am

I am at my wit's end trying to decide on a build to do for my Grey Knights now since i'm planning to start playing 6th Ed.

Previously i've tried mass purifiers, strike squads and purgation squads in rhinos for lots of psycannon goodness, but that isn't very long ranged and a canny opponent (like dark eldar or IG) can just stay back and shoot the rhinos to bits before I can close to 24" range.

I've also tried Coteaz builds with the idea of either mass crusaders and assassins in land raiders (T3 and S3 really is a pain, even with a techmarine/inquisitor along for hammerhand) or mass psykers in chimaeras/rhinos (nothing like a good load of Str 10 AP1 large blasts!)

I'm trying to stay away from foot armies (terminators, paladins etc) cause I don't have many terminators to start with (20) and they're a big points sink. Since they have no access to storm shields I still think terminators belong in Black Templar/Space Marine armies more than GK. Before you say "oh my god but terminators are BRILLIANT!" I have used them in lists before (deep striking) and yes they can be very good in CC, but I'm a gunline player.

Currently i'm liking the idea of:


LIST 1:

Inquisitor Coteaz 100

Inquisitor (Xenos) 73
Psychotroke Grenades
Rad Grenades
Power Armour
Ulumeathi Plasma Syphon

ELITES
Purifier Squad (8 man) x 2 446
Incinerators x 2
Halberds x 3
Daemonhammers x 1

Techmarine 140
Psychotroke Grenades
Rad Grenades
Nemesis Warding Stave

TROOPS

Inquisitor Henchmen Squad (3 man) x5 460
Acolytes x 3
DT: Razorback w/ T-L Plasma Gun & Lascannon

HEAVY SUPPORT

Land Raider Crusader x 2 530
Multi-Melta,

1749

The idea of this list is that the purifiers and techmarine and xenos inq go in the crusaders and the acolytes provide long range fire support with the razorbacks. simple but a viable list I hope...

the other option i'm thinking of is:

Inquisitor Coteaz
100

ELITES

Purifiers (5 man) x 3
Psycannons x 2
Halberds x 2
Daemonhammer
DT: Rhino w/ HK
597

TROOPS

Inq Henchmen Squad (8 man) x 5
Psykers x8
DT:Chimaera
675

HEAVY SUPPORT

Purgation Squad (5 man) x 2
Daemonhammer
Psycannons x 2
Incinerators x 2
DT:
Rhino
370


Combining Psycannons with psyker blasts. I know the Chimaeras don't have Fortitude so stunned/shaken would be a problem, but they add a lot of firepower in the form of multilaser and heavy bolters. I've found that yes they sometimes don't do a lot, but other times that one heavy bolter shot or extra multilaser shot is enough to turn a mediocre shooting phase into a "oh that unit's dead".


Comments? Suggestions?





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Re: HELP! Can't decide on GK list!! 1750

Post by xFallenx on Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:35 am

Not a lot of Psycher love around here unfortunately, I was thinking something along the same line as your # 2 for my escalation league. That being said, as I've yet to play a game of 40K, I'll confir opinion to those with much more knowledge then I.

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Re: HELP! Can't decide on GK list!! 1750

Post by first strike on Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:49 pm

I think that the main question is what is need in a list in 6th ed, this changed a little from 5th. In 5th the objectives were placed in the middle of the field as nobody wanted to give the opp an easy objective and we did not know where we were going to be, in 6th this is completly different, objectives are placed after you roll for sides and the first one is placed by the player who is going first. Now your scoring units need to have mobility and survivability as they may be trying to get objectives which are 6" from the back of the board and can be traveling 42" in a game (hammer and anvil) to get to them, you just will not make it on foot. Range is also important as you have said, I am now seeing battles where 24" just will not cut it anymore, and 36" is where it is at. This does not mean that you will not be shooting at under this range, let face it you have to move up and get the objectives, but shooting support neens to have the bigger ranges to stay alive.
The issue with both the lsits you have is that in both of them you are useing your troops as the fire support units, and the elite units are moving up the board with no chance of scoring.

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Re: HELP! Can't decide on GK list!! 1750

Post by Corennus on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:46 am

hmm interesting.....

thanks i'll have a think

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Re: HELP! Can't decide on GK list!! 1750

Post by Corennus on Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:02 am

i'm going with this setup...

HQ

Inquisitor (Xenos) 76
Psychotroke Grenades
Rad Grenades
Power Armour
Ulumeathi Plasma Syphon
Servo SKull

Inquisitor (Xenos) 76
Psychotroke Grenades
Rad Grenades
Power Armour
Ulumeathi Plasma Syphon
Sevo Skull

ELITES
Purifier Squad (9 man) x 2 462
Incinerators x 2
Halberds x 5
Daemonhammers x 1

TROOPS

Strike Squad (5 man) x 4 600
Psycannon
DT: Rhino

HEAVY SUPPORT

Land Raider Crusader x 2 530
Multi-Melta,

1749


The Purifiers go in the land raiders and charge against the enemy. The inquisitors give them psychotroke and rad grenades AND plasma syphon so any unit looking for a cheap kill using plasma at rapid fire range will find themselves at BS1 (6+ to hit = 1 or 2 compared to maybe 4/5 hits)
The Strike Squads zoom to objectives near deployment and hunker down. when they need to (near the end of game hopefully) they deploy and claim objectives.
The Servo SKulls are deployed in ruins to prevent enemy infiltrators from deploying there.

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Re: HELP! Can't decide on GK list!! 1750

Post by first strike on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:42 pm

This could work, you do not have any ranged support (36"+) but the land raiders can provide cover for the rhinos on the way up the board and at least get them closer to the objectives. I do think that you are a little under done on the firpower but some play testing on your part will let you know if I am right or not. Good luck and have fun.

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Re: HELP! Can't decide on GK list!! 1750

Post by Corennus on Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:47 am

the rhinos zoom out and camp on objectives. they're really mobile bunkers. the land raiders move 12" per turn and harrass the front lines.

and as far as objectives go you deploy them just as you do in 5th. (near your own lines normally!).


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Re: HELP! Can't decide on GK list!! 1750

Post by Corennus on Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:50 am

and as far as ranged support goes, well once you've moved 12" 36"range isn't really an issue any more...

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Re: HELP! Can't decide on GK list!! 1750

Post by first strike on Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:42 pm

Corennus wrote:the rhinos zoom out and camp on objectives. they're really mobile bunkers. the land raiders move 12" per turn and harrass the front lines.

and as far as objectives go you deploy them just as you do in 5th. (near your own lines normally!).

No you will not, if you win the roll for deplotment then you would give yourself 3 out of 5 objectives befroe the game began (I know I would) unless you are an assult army (eg nids), then you would look to place them closser to the enemy as this is where you will be. In 5th you did not know where you were going to deploy until after the objectives went down so most players placed them in the middle of the board so as to not give the opp an advantage before the game started.

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Re: HELP! Can't decide on GK list!! 1750

Post by Mozes on Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:00 am

Well... why dont you try this?

Coteaz/Inqui with:

Henchmen-Squad:
2 Jokaeros
3 Servitos (either with 2 heavybolters and 1 plasmacanon or 3heavy bolters)
5 (or more, as you like for sacrifices) Akolytes, 3with plasma

this squad works pretty nasty, especially since the only thing, you dont wanna see for the upgrad caused by the apes is 5 (for a 5++), everything else is perfect, +12"range, rending, or even a better save (so you might buy the 3+ for the akolytes?)
I used only one (with coteaz) of this squad, but they use to nearly kill everything i let them aim at... (a 10men squad of termis or really hard units could be too much, but still they do great damage on them) PLUS you get some ranged firepower that does not rely on "oh pls dont let me get hit by anti-tank weapons or i explode" Wink

it works even better if you have an aegis^^

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Re: HELP! Can't decide on GK list!! 1750

Post by Corennus on Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:35 am

thanks for the idea Mozes.

Personally I don't like the heavy bolter because having used it with chimaeras for ages the BS3 really does make a difference to how effective it is. In the hands of a Devastator Squad or even tactical squad of space marines (i'd take the missile launcher) it's ok. but needing a 4+ to hit every time really does limit the number of shots that will actually hit.
Whereas, a servitor squad w/ plasma cannons (yes i know they scatter and have to roll for gets hot) doesn't rely on their BS3 to hit, and also they're AP2 so ANYTHING non-vehicle if wounded will have to use inv save or it's bye bye time.
Unless they're eternal warrior, yes I know lol.

One idea I did have for a pure inquisition force you might like is:

HQ

Coteaz
Psychic powers changed to Divination powers
100

ELITES

Techmarine
Rad Grenades
Servo Skulls x 2
Nemesis Daemonhammer
116

Techmarine
Rad Grenades
Servo Skulls x 2
Nemesis Daemonhammer
116


TROOPS

Servitor Squad (4 man)
Plasma Cannons
Jokaero Weaponsmith
95

Crusader/Assassin Squad (10 man)
X 6 Crusaders x 4 Assassins
150

Crusader/Assassin Squad (10 man)
X 6 Crusaders x 4 Assassins
150

Psyker Squad (8 man)
DT: Rhino
120

Psyker Squad (8 man)
DT: Rhino
120

FAST ATTACK

Stormraven
T-L Multi-Melta
T-L Assault Cannon
205

Stormraven
T-L Multi-Melta
T-L Assault Cannon
205

HEAVY SUPPORT

Dreadnought
T-L Autocannons
Psyammo
135

Dreadnought
T-L Autocannons
Psyammo
135

FORTIFICATION

Aegis Defence Line
Quad Gun
85


The techmarines go with the Assassin/Crusader squads so they can repair the stormravens and give the squads a much needed Str boost or use force weapon on multi-wound models, and also Rad Grenades. They can also deploy servo skulls in ruins to deny enemy infiltrators and scouts access on deployment.
The psyker squads can bring down Str 10 AP1 destruction (depending on psyker rolls of course), while the dreads can use the aegis defence line as cover for a 4+ cover save!
Coteaz goes with the servitor squad (he'll be manning the quad gun) and giving presience or some other divination power to the servitors and jokaero.
and of course the jokaero gives the servitor squad something good hopefully.

what you think?

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Re: HELP! Can't decide on GK list!! 1750

Post by Mozes on Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:06 am

well...bs3, BUT TL! Coteaz just casts the spell (dunno what's its name in english) and all weapons are twin linked, so you'll hit most of the time and there you have 6xS5 (i usually use 2heavy bolter and a plasmacanon) and even the plasma from the akolytes become pretty precise Wink

And not to mention the jokaeros... if you get 12" range, the enemy wont be able to hide anywhere on the field...if you get rending, perfect, now even your heavybolters gonna do great damage, as they hit most of the times thanks to twin linked..
Why i just use 1plasmacanon: it's still possible, that you meet eldar or something, that wont let you cast that easily, so its better to have some guys, that are not that much addicted to the TL-spell...

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Re: HELP! Can't decide on GK list!! 1750

Post by Corennus on Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:39 am

it is 35 points for jokaero which is an awful lot. and if you use prescience with plasma cannons you can REROLL THE SCATTER DICE.

plus remember you're spending 100 points for one unit to become t-l. bit much!

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Re: HELP! Can't decide on GK list!! 1750

Post by Corennus on Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:11 am

ok comparison for the sake of fairness.

2 heavy bolter servitors, a plasma cannon servitor and a jokaero w/ prescience

Roll for Gets hot on plasma cannon servitor. passes.
Fires plasma cannon and scatters 6" (3" after BS3).
4+ to hit for jokaero and 6 heavy bolter shots. so 50/50 chance to make a hit for 7 shots. le'ts be kind and say you make 4 shots, reroll the last 3 and get another (the lascannon).

so that's 4 heavy bolter shots (Str 5 AP4), a plasma cannon blast that may hit up to 4 models (Str 7 AP2) and 1 lascannon shot (Str9 AP2).

Depending on what unit you're firing against will decide how well you wound with those 5 shots and what their saves are (orks and IG won't fare well. CSM and Space marines will just take it). The plasma cannon may or may not wound depending on cover saves.

Now. let's compare to twin-linked plasma cannons x 3 and jokaero.

Servitors have to roll Gets Hot first. they roll and 1 gets hot but servitor passes armour save, so only 2 plasma cannons will fire.

the 2 plasma cannons fire and both scatter. Jokaero fires and doesn't hit.
Reroll to hit for jokaero. he hits this time.
Reroll scatter dice, one plasma blast is on target and other scatters 5" (reduced to 2 inches due to BS3). The plasma blasts effectively cover most of the unit that is being targeted.

You'd roll 2+ to wound against nearly any enemy infantry (save monstrous creatures) and any enemy model who is wounded unless it has an inv save or is eternal warrior (or cover save) then it is dead. gone. bye bye. Plus the coverage of the plasma blasts means more of the enemy must take saves than the heavy bolter setup.

That's as fair as I can make it I think.

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