Purifiers weapons

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Purifiers weapons

Post by lalomed on Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:16 am

Hello guys

Just coming back to 40k with the grey knights, Used to play them with the old codex and they only had the halberd that the time, now we have a bunch of weapons to choose. My question is the following; for a Purifiers squad, what is the best weapons mix? justicar with halberd, but for the rest of the squad? psycannons and lose the force weapon? falchions? hammers?

lalomed
Stormtrooper
Stormtrooper

Number of posts : 2
Age : 34
Registration date : 2012-11-17

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Purifiers weapons

Post by Aubec le noir on Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:07 am

i use them as CC unit so : Halberds are paramount with 1 Hammer (just in case, for the Justicar or not...) and 1 psycannon for 5 men.
Aubec pirat

_________________
la fuite n'est pas une option !

Aubec le noir
Adeptus Moderatus
Adeptus Moderatus

Number of posts : 3638
Age : 47
Location : France
Army : 40K : GK (curious isn't it ;-) ) WHB : Dwarfs, Ogres, Mercs
Registration date : 2009-11-01

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile http://lacompagniephoenix.bb-fr.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Purifiers weapons

Post by DonFer on Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:56 pm

Standard loadout for a 10 man squad is 5xNFH, 4 Psycannons, Daemonhammer on the Knight of Flame. That's because Purifiers can carry 4 Psycannons and their halberds are really cheap. This rounds up a very "swiss knife"-like unit. Great shooting and nice CC abilities.

I would also take a look at the Warding Stave for the knight of flame, for challenges and such. 20 points is a little bit too much though.

DonFer
Terminator
Terminator

Number of posts : 1398
Age : 41
Registration date : 2010-10-21

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Purifiers weapons

Post by first strike on Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:59 pm

The hammer should not go on the knight of the flame. This leaves him open to chalenges where his 3+ save will be removed by a power weapon and he can kill himself when casting hammerhand or cleansing flame and you lose the hammer, he has the same number of attacks as a normal purifier so no advantage, 2 to 4 psy cannons is the way to go and the warding stalf is up to personal choice. Unless you want to spam squads and take them in 6 man with a razorback with each.

first strike
Grey Knight
Grey Knight

Number of posts : 409
Age : 40
Army : Grey Knights, Eldar, Space Wolves, High Elf
Registration date : 2012-02-08

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Purifiers weapons

Post by lalomed on Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:11 pm

i was thinking of them as a punch unit, the rest of the army is pretty much grey knight strike squads with psycannons, dread knight, 1 interceptor squad, stormraven and dread psyrifle.
4 psycanons isnt too much? I see them as a assault unit and giving 4 psycanons means 4 guys without force weapons...

lalomed
Stormtrooper
Stormtrooper

Number of posts : 2
Age : 34
Registration date : 2012-11-17

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Purifiers weapons

Post by Aubec le noir on Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:36 pm

yes 4 psycannons are too much for a cc unit imho (but i don't remember if the psycannon repalce the NFW of the stormbolter or both scratch )
Hammer not for the Justicar (for the same reason as described by brother First Strike)
Aubec pirat

_________________
la fuite n'est pas une option !

Aubec le noir
Adeptus Moderatus
Adeptus Moderatus

Number of posts : 3638
Age : 47
Location : France
Army : 40K : GK (curious isn't it ;-) ) WHB : Dwarfs, Ogres, Mercs
Registration date : 2009-11-01

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile http://lacompagniephoenix.bb-fr.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Purifiers weapons

Post by DonFer on Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:26 am

first strike wrote:The hammer should not go on the knight of the flame. This leaves him open to chalenges where his 3+ save will be removed by a power weapon and he can kill himself when casting hammerhand or cleansing flame and you lose the hammer, he has the same number of attacks as a normal purifier so no advantage, 2 to 4 psy cannons is the way to go and the warding stalf is up to personal choice. Unless you want to spam squads and take them in 6 man with a razorback with each.

Purifiers are after all simple space marines so they will die easily no matter what. So avoiding puting the hammer on the KoF is just as useful as gving another Purifier the weapon. In challenges at least he will be able to strike at Power Fists, and Axes and has a good chance in killing the opponent. True a PW character will make short work of him, but at least you can refuse the challenge if you are so fond in not killing the KoF.
This was discussed before, but Purifiers are not a pure CC unit. The pack enough punch to survive standard MEQ units, but against specialized CC units they die as easily as IG troops, ergo they are not specialized CC units. The fact that they can pack 4 psycannons is the most clear point that they are a shooty unit more capable in dealing with hordes (multiple units, low stats) in CC (good in both shooting and assault, but do not excell in any) than the standard SSGK. Trying to pit Purifiers against Incubi, Harlequins, AssTermies, or any other such a unit is obviously, a suicide.

DonFer
Terminator
Terminator

Number of posts : 1398
Age : 41
Registration date : 2010-10-21

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Purifiers weapons

Post by Corennus on Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:18 am

My build is normally in 5 man squads with double psycannons, 2 halberds (one on justicar) and one daemonhammer. this means that the squad can handle just about anything thrown at them. I'm not saying they'll win (in fact most of the time a 5 man squad will die if thrown into combat) but they can be good at taking down an enemy squad's size after psycannons have become obsolete (too close to really use)

Corennus
Justicar
Justicar

Number of posts : 664
Age : 37
Location : UK
Army : Ex player from 5th ed.
Registration date : 2011-02-11

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Purifiers weapons

Post by first strike on Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:31 pm

If you are after an assult squad then incins make a better choice but they will need to be in an assult vechile to get the most out of them. For just a normal unit that can do both roles then psycannons are it.
Termies are our close combat heavy hitters now, it was death cult assassians but they have droped with the change to assult rules (not being able to assult from a rhino or razorback), people will just not let them get close (I think the have comitment issues). Termies can advance up the board without cover or vech support and still have enougth left to do damage in hand to hand (they still like cover and delivery systems but it is not a must have).

first strike
Grey Knight
Grey Knight

Number of posts : 409
Age : 40
Army : Grey Knights, Eldar, Space Wolves, High Elf
Registration date : 2012-02-08

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Purifiers weapons

Post by Zealadin on Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:15 am

DCA could never assault out of a Rhino or Razor...
Termies don't really even compare to DCA.
DCA are still generally far better at chopping most things up.

The problem is that combat is less predictable and overwatch is dangerous to units like DCA.

Buying a squad of DCA in LR is probably similar cost to a full squad of Terminators.
Also plasma is huge this edition, expect GKT to die in droves because they don't get a good enough invulnerable...

Incins also are not a good choice for purifiers. If you want an assault unit you take melee weapons, or at worst Psycannons for some anti tank.
Stormbolters are already fine for shooting and you don't trade off your actual CC prowess to do it.

Zealadin
Grand Master
Grand Master

Number of posts : 3279
Age : 29
Location : Sydney Australia
Army : Retired Eldar, Puritan Grey Knights, Dark Eldar
Registration date : 2008-09-14

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile http://kael-din.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Purifiers weapons

Post by Corennus on Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:27 am

Problem with DCA: Anything S6 or above will instant death them. Weight of fire will bring them down much easier than purifiers and with no ranged ability they're left milling about after combat with no way to contribute to the fight till they're in CC again.


Corennus
Justicar
Justicar

Number of posts : 664
Age : 37
Location : UK
Army : Ex player from 5th ed.
Registration date : 2011-02-11

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Purifiers weapons

Post by Aubec le noir on Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:52 am

except if you mix DCA with crusaders ... 3++ save could help their survivability imho Wink
Aubec pirat

_________________
la fuite n'est pas une option !

Aubec le noir
Adeptus Moderatus
Adeptus Moderatus

Number of posts : 3638
Age : 47
Location : France
Army : 40K : GK (curious isn't it ;-) ) WHB : Dwarfs, Ogres, Mercs
Registration date : 2009-11-01

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile http://lacompagniephoenix.bb-fr.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Purifiers weapons

Post by Corennus on Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:09 am

no it doesn't actually. what you get is a mix of 5+ and 3+ against a wealth of firepower and they still die cause they're all T3.

Trust me I tried it with 2 big squads of mixed DAC and crusaders with techmarines to give them +1 str. they all died to a man due to firepower.

Corennus
Justicar
Justicar

Number of posts : 664
Age : 37
Location : UK
Army : Ex player from 5th ed.
Registration date : 2011-02-11

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Purifiers weapons

Post by Corennus on Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:15 am

use them as suicide assault squads and harrassment squads only. don't use them to take and hold objectives. that's what purifiers and terminators are for

Corennus
Justicar
Justicar

Number of posts : 664
Age : 37
Location : UK
Army : Ex player from 5th ed.
Registration date : 2011-02-11

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Purifiers weapons

Post by Aubec le noir on Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:00 am

wait... i don't understand...
the wound allocation as changed ... if you place the crusaders in the front of the unit you could survive longer no ?
Aubec pirat

_________________
la fuite n'est pas une option !

Aubec le noir
Adeptus Moderatus
Adeptus Moderatus

Number of posts : 3638
Age : 47
Location : France
Army : 40K : GK (curious isn't it ;-) ) WHB : Dwarfs, Ogres, Mercs
Registration date : 2009-11-01

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile http://lacompagniephoenix.bb-fr.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Purifiers weapons

Post by first strike on Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:24 pm

Yes, the crusaders will help, you take the saves against the closest model until he goes down, so you could have one crusader take 50 las cannon shots and keep on ticking (not likely but posible, and I would like to have your dice tested after this if it happened).
Death cults could charge out of a rhino in the previous eddition, you just had to have the rhino in position with smoke on, a turn before you charge, now you have to get out and get shot for a turn before you can charge.
Yes the death cults in a landraider cost about the same as terminators, this is why I said they are no longer what they used to be. Our delivery systems cost to much, if we could get open toped, cheep vechiles, then they would come back into it. Nobody will let a unit of death cult assassians walk accross the board, and if they get out of a vechile and spend a turn sitting there you would have to have some greater threat to stop them geting shot off the board in one turn. I do not question their power, just the delivery.

first strike
Grey Knight
Grey Knight

Number of posts : 409
Age : 40
Army : Grey Knights, Eldar, Space Wolves, High Elf
Registration date : 2012-02-08

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Purifiers weapons

Post by Corennus on Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:09 am

exactly my point first strike.

And since nothing in Inquisitor side of army can deep strike etc then it's either land raiders or stormravens as best way of delivery of the DCAs/Crusaders.

Though personally i'd still advocate Purifiers over DCAs and Crusaders for the simple point of this:

Charging an enemy unit of 10 Ork Boyz (T4 6+ armour save) and a Nob w/ power klaw (T5 4+ save I think/ not sure) with a 7 man squad of DCAs and Crusaders (4 assassins, 3 crusaders)
In overwatch orks fire all weapons but manage to kill nothing
Assassins will strike first (I 6) and roll 16 dice to hit. of this maybe you'll get lucky and get 10 hits say. of these you get maybe 5 wounds.
Then you get the Orks hitting back (5 boyz). they'll respond with 10 attacks at Str 4. they get 6 hits, and roll 4 wounds.
The wounds are allocated to 2 crusaders and 2 assassins. the crusaders lose one and pass one. the assassins both fail saves and die.
The Crusaders now strike back at same initiative (so 6 attacks on the charge) and hit 3 times. They wound twice so 2 boyz are dead.
Then the Nob wades in with 2 power klaw attacks. he hits once, and wounds once.
A crusader takes it and fails save.

End Result: Orks (7 dead boyz) 3 boyz left alive and Nob

Henchmen- (2 crusaders/ 2 assassins dead) 1 crusader and 2 assassins left alive.

Orks win combat even though henchmen caused more carnage.

Now same combat but with 7 purifiers instead:

Purifiers have double incinerators, 4 halberds and a daemonhammer so in shooting phase before they charge they douse the ork squad with double incinerators and 5 storm bolters.
The orks lose 6 to incinerators and another 2 to storm bolters.
Then charging into combat the remaining 2 orks and nob fire overwatch and cause no damage.
Purifiers then cast Cleansing Flame and take another Ork out (4+)
Then Purifiers get to work with Halberds. 12 attacks, 7 hits, 3 wounds.
2 orks dead and nob reduced to one wound.
then the incineratr guys attack with normal weapons, and the nob dies.
daemonhammer not needed.

Purifiers are much more reliable cause they can shoot before entering combat...

Corennus
Justicar
Justicar

Number of posts : 664
Age : 37
Location : UK
Army : Ex player from 5th ed.
Registration date : 2011-02-11

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Purifiers weapons

Post by Zealadin on Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:11 am

That is a silly comparison.

Purifiers are more expensive than DCA, if you do a comparison do it point to point.
Also why would you have 4 DCA with 3 Crusaders?
A small squad like that would be 7 DCA, 28 attacks, 9 wounds.
Resounding win in combat in which the enemy probably flees.

Also cheaper than 7 Puries. Benefits from a higher WS too.

Addressing a few other peoples points.

If you are using DCA as a scoring unit you are doing it wrong.

If you are using a LR of some variant then careful placement means it should block firelanes to the unit after it wins combat and hopefully shuttle them to the next engagement, if not just shield them from LoS.

I'm not arguing Purifiers aren't a better overall unit, particularly without a delivery vehicle for assault but DCA are the best combat unit in the codex out of an assault vehicle.
Assault vehicles are expensive, but with the increase in plasma vehicles like the LR can carve out a niche once again.

Zealadin
Grand Master
Grand Master

Number of posts : 3279
Age : 29
Location : Sydney Australia
Army : Retired Eldar, Puritan Grey Knights, Dark Eldar
Registration date : 2008-09-14

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile http://kael-din.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Purifiers weapons

Post by Corennus on Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:33 am

woah. 7 DCA. and what happens when those 7 DCA get rapid fired by a load of say bolters? Bye bye DCA.

Purifers are more versatile, more survivable, and in terms of combat ability yes they have lesser WS, but that's made up with the fact they can take different power weapons (nemesis weapons) and also get Cleansing Flame.

10 DCA is 150 and will give you 40 attacks on the charge, but at the expense of being T3 and with a crap 5+ armour and inv save.

for the same points you can take 6 purifers with 3 Halberds and 2 incinerators. They can dish out in CC 18 attacks, but they have a greater chance of surviving.

Corennus
Justicar
Justicar

Number of posts : 664
Age : 37
Location : UK
Army : Ex player from 5th ed.
Registration date : 2011-02-11

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Purifiers weapons

Post by DonFer on Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:58 am

DCA just lost their use in 6th. Can't assault out of a rhino and still don't have frag grenades. With pretty much everything getting cover, you'll be looking at your DCA be shot to death and trampled to oblivion in the next assault phase, by attacking at I1.

Hell even the Chaos Cultists or Zombies in cover can make short work of them because of this. Mad

DonFer
Terminator
Terminator

Number of posts : 1398
Age : 41
Registration date : 2010-10-21

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Purifiers weapons

Post by Corennus on Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:04 am

exactly. while purifiers with 3+ save and a 4+ cover save (hopefully) should survive long enough to shoot and assault.

Corennus
Justicar
Justicar

Number of posts : 664
Age : 37
Location : UK
Army : Ex player from 5th ed.
Registration date : 2011-02-11

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Purifiers weapons

Post by first strike on Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:31 pm

Corennus wrote:
Then you get the Orks hitting back (5 boyz). they'll respond with 10 attacks at Str 4. they get 6 hits, and roll 4 wounds.
The wounds are allocated to 2 crusaders and 2 assassins. the crusaders lose one and pass one. the assassins both fail saves and die.

This is wrong, you will not pass any wounds onto the assassians, you take the wounds onto the first model untill he fails then you go to the next model in base contact.
Lets not get into a topic of which is better then another, both are valid, end everyone will have an preference, i just cannont find a use for the deathcult assassians in my list.

first strike
Grey Knight
Grey Knight

Number of posts : 409
Age : 40
Army : Grey Knights, Eldar, Space Wolves, High Elf
Registration date : 2012-02-08

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Purifiers weapons

Post by Zealadin on Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:49 pm

Corennus wrote:woah. 7 DCA. and what happens when those 7 DCA get rapid fired by a load of say bolters? Bye bye DCA.

If you play like a retard you die. Nothing new here.

Purifers are more versatile, more survivable, and in terms of combat ability yes they have lesser WS, but that's made up with the fact they can take different power weapons (nemesis weapons) and also get Cleansing Flame.

No Purifiers are more versatile and more survivable against light-arms fire, taking different power weapons is totally irrelevant because it suggests you are using DCA wrong, while cleansing flame is only good against hordes, which IS NOT A DCA target.

10 DCA is 150 and will give you 40 attacks on the charge, but at the expense of being T3 and with a crap 5+ armour and inv save.

Which doesn't matter because you A) need an assault vehicle and B) evaporate most targets on the charge.

for the same points you can take 6 purifers with 3 Halberds and 2 incinerators. They can dish out in CC 18 attacks, but they have a greater chance of surviving.
This is just a rubbish unit loadout. It is designed to kill hordes, won't scare anything in combat despite THREE whole force weapons and still needs a delivery vehicle.

Purifiers have certain advantages. But your arguments are incredibly poor and show a total lack of reading comprehension. Maybe read my posts before just spewing out rubbish. If you actually addressed anything I said your post would have value.

Also who was charging DCA out of Rhinos in 5th, cheating is lots of fun. If you did it out of a non-moving Rhino, congrats on only playing terrible opponents.

Using a unit in the totally wrong way and then using that as a justification for why it is a bad unit only proves you aren't a good player. Nothing else.

Zealadin
Grand Master
Grand Master

Number of posts : 3279
Age : 29
Location : Sydney Australia
Army : Retired Eldar, Puritan Grey Knights, Dark Eldar
Registration date : 2008-09-14

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile http://kael-din.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Purifiers weapons

Post by xFallenx on Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:50 am

Bit of Colonial rage going on in here! Wink

xFallenx
Henchmen
Henchmen

Number of posts : 162
Age : 40
Location : Calgary
Army : Grey Knights, SoB, Deamons, Bretonnians & Druchii
Registration date : 2012-11-06

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Purifiers weapons

Post by Guest on Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:09 am

I agree with my fellow Aussie zealadin. Fucking bout time someone spoke their mind... Half the noobs on this site speak utter trash sometimes... How fucking old are they? 10?

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Purifiers weapons

Post by Sponsored content Today at 1:00 pm


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum