GK characters good in challenges?

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GK characters good in challenges?

Post by TheLordMephiston on Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:12 pm

I love the named characters in many armies but the Grey knight I feel aren't quite on par with some of the others. Draigo seems to be the best combat machine character but hes not that good against regular guys. I had him fight a challenge against logan grimnar and while it took a few rounds he did lose (a crushing blow to my morale). Is there anyone in the book besides Draigo who can fight well in a challenge, I was wondering about Crowe but since he can't force someone to death is the rending worth it?

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Re: GK characters good in challenges?

Post by bigbri on Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:34 pm

None of our characters are uber beatsticks since lots of characters have 2+ saves which we struggle to beat without hammers. But we have a couple of options for tying up the opponents big bad while the rest of our guys beat on his friends. Staves are awesome as they tend to last quite a while. Regular brotherhood champions can kill weaker dudes with rapier strike or bladeshield and survive longer, failing that they can always Heroic Sacrifice.
Crowe isn't horrible with rending on 4+, as long as you don't expect him to survive he can work okay by taking something with him(and you should never expect Crowe to survive anyway). Final potential option is Valeria, if she can survive to her I value her maze thing can kill most characters fairly well.

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Re: GK characters good in challenges?

Post by Klauzer on Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:28 am

I feel like a lot of players don't realize that we can challenge with dread knights! If you look in the reference section of the rule book you'll see that it is in fact a character, so just get him into combat with something nasty and take it out!

As far as other characters go their stat lines are only a little better than normal marines, however our strength lies in all the things we can equip. Bigbri mentioned the stave, which is fantastic and has let my terminator justicar survive many challenges simply by outlasting the other guy. You can make up for lower weapon skills by master crafting weapons, drop the enemies toughness with grenades, and never forget hammer hand! Hammer hand also stacks if you have an independent character who can also cast it in the unit. Potentially your crappy justicar can go from his usual stat line to a re-rollable WS4, S6, 2+ invul save...that sounds pretty awesome.

Now consider a grand master with his WS6 and 4++. Thats already pretty nasty, but add a sword and you get a 3++, then master craft it so you can re-roll one of those misses. Take rad grenades or even psychotroke if you have the points (I also always take blind). If he's in a lot of challenges then emperian brain mines might even be worth their points. Honestly I think this guy would have an even better chance than Draigo in challenges due to all the toys and debuffs he can bring to the table.

With all of this in mind you should be able to get a better handle on challenges Very Happy

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Re: GK characters good in challenges?

Post by Aubec le noir on Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:08 am

you could gear your DK with a hammer ... that strikes at initiative : not a bad move even if you don't get the re-rolls
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Re: GK characters good in challenges?

Post by bigbri on Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:24 am

@Klauzer Good call on the Dreadnknight, I got too fixated on ICs and forgot him lol
Aubec le noir wrote:you could gear your DK with a hammer ... that strikes at initiative : not a bad move even if you don't get the re-rolls
Aubec pirat
Personally I don't see the point in the hammer since the fists give him double strength, I'm not convinced the stun effect is worth the extra points.

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Re: GK characters good in challenges?

Post by Klauzer on Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:32 pm

No, fists do not give you double strength because they are not dreadnought close combat weapons. Thats why you have the hammer option.

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Re: GK characters good in challenges?

Post by bigbri on Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:57 pm

Klauzer wrote:No, fists do not give you double strength because they are not dreadnought close combat weapons. Thats why you have the hammer option.
pg 54 of the GK dex "A Nemesis doomfist follows the rules for Dreadnought close combat weapons" the hammer option made sense last edition when DCCW's only doubled walker's strength, but that restriction no longer applies.

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Re: GK characters good in challenges?

Post by Aubec le noir on Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:13 am

yes ... with the 6th ed, the fists are S10, but if i'm not mistaken (i didn't check the new hammer rules), when the opponent is stunned with the hammer he can't act the next round of the fight, which is very good in a challenge imho.
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Re: GK characters good in challenges?

Post by flaxis on Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:07 am

Brothers,

Correct me if I am wrong, but unlike in WFB in 40k the challenge ends and needs to be re-issued in subsequent player turns.

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Re: GK characters good in challenges?

Post by bigbri on Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:14 am

Aubec le noir wrote:yes ... with the 6th ed, the fists are S10, but if i'm not mistaken (i didn't check the new hammer rules), when the opponent is stunned with the hammer he can't act the next round of the fight, which is very good in a challenge imho.
Aubec pirat
Concussive reduces opponents to I1 like the old hammers, so they still get to act. not a great boon for the NDK since most of the things that can hurt it are less than it's I4 anyway.

flaxis wrote:Brothers,

Correct me if I am wrong, but unlike in WFB in 40k the challenge ends and needs to be re-issued in subsequent player turns.

Brother Flaxis
Challenges in 40k don't end automatically at the end of the turn. Challenges only end one one of them is dead, or if the other fails morale and runs away. The only time I can think of when a challenge would have to be reissued is if someone ran away, but was caught by the sweeping but isn't removed because of ATSKNF


Last edited by bigbri on Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:58 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: GK characters good in challenges?

Post by Aubec le noir on Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:47 am

ok brother bigbri ... too bad for the hammer nerf ! Evil or Very Mad
So the sword is more effective in challenge then ! Wink
Or the 2 fists for the extra attack ... i don't kwow what is statistically better... scratch
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Re: GK characters good in challenges?

Post by johnyohm92 on Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:12 am

Hey brothers are you forgetting something? Just stick a termie with a banner and he auto-activates all force weapons in the unit. By logic, all non eternal warriors will have already been dead! Smile

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Re: GK characters good in challenges?

Post by Aubec le noir on Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:29 am

i don't know if it works with a challenge ... depends when the challenge take place compared to the activation of the banner ... scratch
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Re: GK characters good in challenges?

Post by johnyohm92 on Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:02 am

I think it activates when a psychic power in the assault phase is supposed to be cast. Just that this time it's automatic which means no risk of perils of the warp.

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Re: GK characters good in challenges?

Post by bigbri on Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:16 am

Aubec le noir wrote:ok brother bigbri ... too bad for the hammer nerf ! Evil or Very Mad
So the sword is more effective in challenge then ! Wink
Or the 2 fists for the extra attack ... i don't kwow what is statistically better... scratch
Aubec pirat
Well you still get the extra attack having fist + sword, so the question is str10 v str 6 + rerolls. I did some quick numbers for a few possible opponents. The sword does better vs T6 or less opponents, but the fists are inherently causing ID to T5 or less as opposed to needing to activate the sword. Personally I think if you have the points the sword is a good buy, but if you need the points elsewhere you're certainly not going to weaken yourself too much by not taking it, I stick to incinerator, teleporter and fists and do very well.

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Re: GK characters good in challenges?

Post by Aubec le noir on Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:23 am

fair enough brother : thanks for your clear explanations
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Re: GK characters good in challenges?

Post by Tiger10 on Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:53 am

This topic is pretty good Very Happy

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Re: GK characters good in challenges?

Post by duncndisorderly on Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:31 am

I must be honest I tend to run my ndk with fists most often and only take the sword if there are points going spare. I'm happy with the 2 strength 10 attacks we get from what amounts to a giant bullet magnet anyway, I think it all depends on how you intend to use him as well. I favour a jump straight into the cc with whatever my opponent is most proud of. Not necessarily the most destructive piece they have, just the one there most pleased with. I find the psychological effect of destroying someone's best piece is quite usefull in upsetting there game plan . Twisted Evil

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Re: GK characters good in challenges?

Post by Overlord on Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:23 pm

I used to run my NDK with a sword but since they adjusted the stregnth of the fists... that all I use for CC anymore. Statistically the sword is better because of all the rerolls and you still get the extra attack, but I don't feel it is enough to justify the extra points. I never have a problem finding a better use of those points somewhere else.

As far as characters being good in challanges go I like Thawn. His "I shall not Yield" rule is fantastic. IMHO

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