Force Halberds as Force Axe?

 :: Tactica

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Force Halberds as Force Axe?

Post by volvoe on Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:36 am

I'm not sure if this is a buff or nerf towards Force Halberds. In the new rulebook, force halberds are considered force axes which give STR+1, AP2. However, lowers the initiative to 1 because its considered an unwieldy weapon. However, however, however, Halberds are supposed to give +2 initiative. So my question is force halberds still viable assuming our knights strike at initiative 3?

volvoe
Henchmen
Henchmen

Number of posts : 223
Age : 24
Army : Purifier Variant
Registration date : 2012-04-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Force Halberds as Force Axe?

Post by volvoe on Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:45 am

EDIT: Actually according to the FAQ, Force Halberds are always initiative 1, due to multiple modifiers :[

volvoe
Henchmen
Henchmen

Number of posts : 223
Age : 24
Army : Purifier Variant
Registration date : 2012-04-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Force Halberds as Force Axe?

Post by Akoni on Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:04 am

From the Grey Knights 6th Ed. FAQ– Nemesis Force Weapons, Force Weapons.Change the first sentence to read “Unless otherwise stated, all Nemesis weapons are Unusual Force Weapons, as detailed inthe Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.”

From the 6th Ed book Page 68 - Unusual Force Weapons - Many models have unusual Force Weapons that have one or more unique rules. If a Force Weapon has its own unique close combat rules, treat it as an AP3 Melee Weapon with the additional rules and characteristics presented in its entry.

So it’s AP3 force weapon with Nemesis special rules (Force weapon and daemonbane) and +2 Initiative.

Akoni
Justicar
Justicar

Number of posts : 687
Age : 42
Location : California
Army : Grey Knights
Registration date : 2011-05-17

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Force Halberds as Force Axe?

Post by volvoe on Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:09 am

On page 60* in the paragraph above the stats of the weapon it states:
"if it's a sword or dagger, its a Force sword; if it's an axe or halberd, it's a force axe; if it's a blunt weapon like a staff or mace, it's a force stave"

I thought it was an unusual Force Weapon as well, but apparently its not.

On the 4th page of the FAQ, on the right hand side highlighted in pink explains that it is still initiative 1.

FAQ:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2420373a_Grey_Knights_6th_Ed_V1.pdf

volvoe
Henchmen
Henchmen

Number of posts : 223
Age : 24
Army : Purifier Variant
Registration date : 2012-04-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Force Halberds as Force Axe?

Post by volvoe on Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:15 am

Hm, after rereading the FAQ, I suppose you're right. Well, actually I want you to be right Razz

volvoe
Henchmen
Henchmen

Number of posts : 223
Age : 24
Army : Purifier Variant
Registration date : 2012-04-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Force Halberds as Force Axe?

Post by Akoni on Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:31 am

Hop up back to page 2. On the right side and second to last paragraph states:

'Nemesis Force Weapons, Force weapons. Change the first sentence to read "Unless otherwise stated, all Nemesis weapons are Unusual Force Weapons as detailed in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook'

Your referral to page 4 deals with a situation where an ability like a Wraith's Whipcoil drops our model, equipped with a halberd, Initiative down to 1. We're disallowed from adding +2 to our Initiative after receiving a malediction afflicted by Whipcoil. We stay at Initiative 1 with our halberd, not initiative 3.

Akoni
Justicar
Justicar

Number of posts : 687
Age : 42
Location : California
Army : Grey Knights
Registration date : 2011-05-17

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Force Halberds as Force Axe?

Post by volvoe on Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:43 am

Okay thanks brother Nineteen73 :]

volvoe
Henchmen
Henchmen

Number of posts : 223
Age : 24
Army : Purifier Variant
Registration date : 2012-04-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Force Halberds as Force Axe?

Post by Brother Tiberius on Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:16 pm

on page 61 it says "if a models wargear states it has a force weapon with no other rules, look at the model blah blah"

however our models rules DO state specifically what it is - a nemesis force halberd. so it is an unusual force weapon, AP 3, plus any rules described in the codex, ie nemesis rules and +2 I.

the thing where you look at it only applies if the wargear entry is simply "power weapon" or "force weapon"

Brother Tiberius
Stormtrooper
Stormtrooper

Number of posts : 15
Age : 28
Registration date : 2012-02-05

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Force Halberds as Force Axe?

Post by Gladisknight on Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:27 am

Besides, what interest would we have in force axes? We can easily equip hammers, which get ap2

Gladisknight
Stormtrooper
Stormtrooper

Number of posts : 8
Age : 35
Registration date : 2012-03-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Halberd rules

Post by bruvgrim on Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:58 am

I tend to agree with the FAQ stating NFH are unusual force weapons. So that makes them I+2 AP3 but what is it's strength value there is no mention of it in the codex and +1S is only posted in the mundane force halberd list?

bruvgrim
Stormtrooper
Stormtrooper

Number of posts : 4
Age : 45
Location : Essex
Army : Grey Knights, High Elves
Registration date : 2012-08-02

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Force Halberds as Force Axe?

Post by Brother Tiberius on Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:14 am

well it strength would be "as user" so 4 for GK. 5 with Hammerhand Smile

Brother Tiberius
Stormtrooper
Stormtrooper

Number of posts : 15
Age : 28
Registration date : 2012-02-05

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Force Halberds as Force Axe?

Post by Souba on Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:51 pm

this one god damn question over and over and over... use the search guys it cant be that hard

Souba
Brother Captain
Brother Captain

Number of posts : 1574
Age : 30
Location : Berlin, Germany
Army : Inquisitorial Army, Necrons, Dark Eldar, Daemons of Chaos
Registration date : 2009-11-07

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Force Halberds as Force Axe?

Post by bruvgrim on Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:20 am

Thanks guys, if this question keeps popping up perhaps it should be FAQ'd better.

bruvgrim
Stormtrooper
Stormtrooper

Number of posts : 4
Age : 45
Location : Essex
Army : Grey Knights, High Elves
Registration date : 2012-08-02

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Force Halberds as Force Axe?

Post by Souba on Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:19 am

or people should simply read all the force weapon rules stated in the rulebook. especially the unusual force weapon part. wich states : "many models have unusual force weapons. that have one or more unique rules. if a force weapon has its own unique close combat rules, treat it as a n AP 3 Melee weapon due to the additiional rules and characteristics presented in its entry"

now just look up. is a nemesis weapon in any case not granted with special abilitys given to its wielder?

Nemesis Force sword : Daemonbane, +1 on the invulnerable save for close combat. that makes 2 special rules. counts as unusual force weapon and thus is AP 3

Nemesis Force Halberd: Daemonbane, the wielder strikes at +2 initiative. that makes 2 special rules. counts as unusual force weapon and thus is AP 3

Nemesis Daemonhammer: Daemonbane, works as a Thunderhammer. has one special rule but the codex states uses the rules for thunderhammers. thus specialist weapon, unwieldly, 2x strength and AP 2.

Nemesis Warding Stave: Daemonbane, Grants the wielder a 2+ invulnerable save in close combat. that makes 2 special rules. counts as unusual force weapon and thus is AP 3

Nemesis Force Falchions: Daemonbane, grant the wielder +1 attack. that makes 2 special rules. counts as unusual force weapon and thus is AP 3

Nemesis Doomfist: Daemonbane, uses the rules for Dreadnought Close Combat weapons. that makes 1 special rule Uses the Rules for Dreadnought close combat weapons and goes with 2x Strength and AP 2.

Nemesis Greatsword: Daemonbane. Reroll Failed to hit, to wound and armour penetration rolls in close combat. that makes 2 special rules. counts as unusual force weapon and thus is AP 3. but in the Case of the Nemesis Dread Knight this thing Strikes at AP 2 due to the Smash rule monstrous creatures got.


if people read the force weapon entry in the rulebook and with that i mean the whole force weapon entry (that means counting in the unusual force weapons part) this question wouldnt be even needed in the FAQ.

its just one simply question one has to ask himself:

does your force weapon got anything other than beeing a force weapon ?


no: use the model of the Force Weapon and give it rules based on the rulebooks

yes: my force weapon grants me +2 inititative. this force weapon uses the rules of its codex and is AP 3.





Souba
Brother Captain
Brother Captain

Number of posts : 1574
Age : 30
Location : Berlin, Germany
Army : Inquisitorial Army, Necrons, Dark Eldar, Daemons of Chaos
Registration date : 2009-11-07

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Force Halberds as Force Axe?

Post by bruvgrim on Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:33 am

Thanks Souba, I appreciate that, and never disagreed with the rule book, codex or FAQ. But returning to my original question it never states anywhere in the rule book, codex or FAQ what the strength of unusual force weapons is, it just says AP3 and follows special rules for that weapon.

bruvgrim
Stormtrooper
Stormtrooper

Number of posts : 4
Age : 45
Location : Essex
Army : Grey Knights, High Elves
Registration date : 2012-08-02

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Force Halberds as Force Axe?

Post by Souba on Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:18 pm

the ruelbook is also very clear on that subject. its simply ap 3. no additinal strength or anything is mentioned. so you strike at S 4 with ap 3.

they also dont state what strength close combat weapons have. because there is no reason to

Souba
Brother Captain
Brother Captain

Number of posts : 1574
Age : 30
Location : Berlin, Germany
Army : Inquisitorial Army, Necrons, Dark Eldar, Daemons of Chaos
Registration date : 2009-11-07

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Force Halberds as Force Axe?

Post by Brother Tiberius on Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:19 pm

I'm pretty sure it states in the rulebook (possibly in the basic principals section in the front, i don't have the book in front of me) that in close combat a model strikes at its own strength unless the weapon has additional rules. so any weapon that makes no reference to strength is always the strength of the user.

Brother Tiberius
Stormtrooper
Stormtrooper

Number of posts : 15
Age : 28
Registration date : 2012-02-05

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Force Halberds as Force Axe?

Post by bruvgrim on Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:39 pm

Ok and I agree nemesis force halberds are AP3, Str as user and Initiative +2. Was just suggesting that it could have had a profile like all the other weapons in the rule book would have made the answer obvious.

bruvgrim
Stormtrooper
Stormtrooper

Number of posts : 4
Age : 45
Location : Essex
Army : Grey Knights, High Elves
Registration date : 2012-08-02

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Force Halberds as Force Axe?

Post by DOMIN4TRIX on Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:21 pm

With hammerhand prevelent in our codex, citing the strength of force weapons would be even more confusing

DOMIN4TRIX
Justicar
Justicar

Number of posts : 642
Age : 34
Army : Knights, Nids and Necs
Registration date : 2011-08-09

Grey knight
stats:

View user profile http://corpointdeux.tumblr.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Force Halberds as Force Axe?

Post by Sponsored content Today at 7:32 am


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 :: Tactica

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum