Am i the only one?

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Am i the only one?

Post by Jonathan on Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:50 am

Am i the only one annoyed when everyone across the 40k forums talks about grey knights fluffwise like they would be space marines? i mean the talk about grey knights fighting xenos all kind of stuff related to the stuff space marines do.
For they are not something that could be classified as Space Marines. because the grey knights chapter and the imperial inquisition was something the emperor created to replace him in his duties regarding the portection of the human race.

so to put it simple, the grey knights act as a "substitute emperor" of sort, where as space marines do their work FOR the emperor.

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Re: Am i the only one?

Post by Constantine on Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:59 pm

Pretty heretcal musings Brother Shocked .

I agree that GKs are not just another SM chapter. But I do not agree that they are a chapter of "substitute emperors"

I see the Grey Knights as a specialized force that was created to face a foe that no other can (Daemons).

IMHO the confusion comes when the Grey Knights shift from the realms of novels and fluff onto the table top. In the novels and fluff GKs are only deployed when Daemons are at large.......On the table top however, they fight anything that is put in front of them.......which ironically enough seldom includes Daemons Rolling Eyes Razz

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+++"There is nothing in the arcane and blasphemous arsenal of the forces of Chaos that can compare to faith. With the power of faith, our weapons become shining instruments of deliverance that can cleave the mightiest daemon in twain. With the power of faith, our minds appear as slivers of pure agony to the daemon, driving into the wretched forms of those who would dare stand before us. With the power of faith, our words become commands that cause the daemon to cower and cringe in terror. I could meet my enemies unarmed without a shred of fear in my chest, for I know that the Emperor watches over me and guides my hand. So let them come. We shall show them what the power of faith can do."+++ (Brother Captain Stern)

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Re: Am i the only one?

Post by MJSwasey on Sat Jul 09, 2011 4:00 pm

Everything put in front of my Grey knights is a daemon if i look hard enough and shout my litanies loud enough.

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Re: Am i the only one?

Post by Titus on Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:31 pm

MJSwasey wrote:Everything put in front of my Grey knights is a daemon if i look hard enough and shout my litanies loud enough.

cheers Laughing lol!

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Re: Am i the only one?

Post by DonFer on Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:48 pm

True words brother, very true! Very Happy

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Re: Am i the only one?

Post by TheCrimsonGlass on Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:34 pm

MJSwasey wrote:Everything put in front of my Grey knights is a daemon if i look hard enough and shout my litanies loud enough.
This is the best thing ever. May I steal it as my sig?

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Re: Am i the only one?

Post by MJSwasey on Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:38 pm

of course Smile

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Re: Am i the only one?

Post by InquisitorIII on Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:03 pm

MJSwasey wrote:Everything put in front of my Grey knights is a daemon if i look hard enough and shout my litanies loud enough.

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Re: Am i the only one?

Post by jerbat123 on Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:00 pm

Spoken Like a true believer.......If you look hard enough everybody has a little taint on them Laughing Razz I'm going to borrow this saying also.

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Re: Am i the only one?

Post by Constantine on Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:00 pm

jerbat123 wrote:Spoken Like a true believer.......If you look hard enough everybody has a little taint on them Laughing Razz I'm going to borrow this saying also.

Believer!?
Sounds more like the words of a heretic to me!!! Suspect
++ Off you go for a good soul scrubbing Brother!!! ++ Razz

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+++"There is nothing in the arcane and blasphemous arsenal of the forces of Chaos that can compare to faith. With the power of faith, our weapons become shining instruments of deliverance that can cleave the mightiest daemon in twain. With the power of faith, our minds appear as slivers of pure agony to the daemon, driving into the wretched forms of those who would dare stand before us. With the power of faith, our words become commands that cause the daemon to cower and cringe in terror. I could meet my enemies unarmed without a shred of fear in my chest, for I know that the Emperor watches over me and guides my hand. So let them come. We shall show them what the power of faith can do."+++ (Brother Captain Stern)

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Re: Am i the only one?

Post by Zealadin on Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:33 am

Its sad because this codex brought our beloved GK's much closer to SM than the previous codex did.
Also sadly the terrible authors at the Black Library don't seem to be able to see the difference between GK's and SM's which mean most novels are pathetic at following any kind of realistic lore.

I still stand by the fact that GK's are not Space Marines, the same way that guardmen are not Space Marines.
Space Marine players however can't be content just with the best rules in the 40k universe, they generally expect the best fluff, to be the coolest, the most powerful etc etc. This means that GK are a threat to this, and so most SM players just consider GK's another 'chapter'.

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Re: Am i the only one?

Post by Souba on Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:26 am

the new codex makes it clearer that GK are "just another SM chapter" thats true. but GK have been a SM chapter all along even since the DH book. they use other combat doctrines & equipment than most space marine chapters but guess what differs most SM chapters from each other? its the combat doctrine & equipment and certain characteristics.

to say GK are to SM is what SM are to guardsmen is a bit too extreme. they are all space marines with psychic abilitiys, are trained to be uncorruptable and got mind wiped.
they are the chapter 666 for a reason. as many other chapters each got its own uniqueness. Blood angels & spacewolves also got extreme characteristics/abilitys to that differ far from other space marine chapters. they still are space marines.

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Re: Am i the only one?

Post by DonFer on Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:47 am

Blood angels are Vampires and Space wolves are Lycantropes. I wonder if Edward Cullen is in there somewhere..... Razz Very Happy

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Re: Am i the only one?

Post by TheCrimsonGlass on Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:33 am

Edward Cullen. Special Ability: Sparkling Might - Can only be used on turns in which night fighting is not in effect. Enemy units are blinded by the sparkling skin of the gay vampire. Any enemy units within 12 inches of him must roll an extra "to hit" die in shooting. On a roll of 1, the shot misses.


Last edited by BrentK on Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:03 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Am i the only one?

Post by Rivan on Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:19 am

BrentK wrote:Edward Cullen. Special Ability: Sparkling Might - Can only be used on turns in which night fighting is not in effect. Enemy units are blinded by the sparkling skin of the gay vampire. Any enemy units within 12 inches of him must roll an extra "to hit" die in shooting. On a roll of 1, then shot misses.

Also, NEVER, EVER send Sisters of battle or female Inquisitors to fight him because they will only fall head over heels in love with him lol!

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Re: Am i the only one?

Post by DonFer on Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:22 am

lol!

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Re: Am i the only one?

Post by TheCrimsonGlass on Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:01 am

Oh yes, second special rule: Sparkly Vampire's Seduction - Edward shows the ladies "what he truly is" and they fall in love. Whenever a female model does anything that causes a wound to Edward, roll a die. On a roll of 1, 2, or 3, the wound is negated and the model cannot move in your next movement phase.

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Re: Am i the only one?

Post by MaizoonUK40k on Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:24 am

Gk are a space marine chapter.. but like all army's fantasy or real they have there place.. i tend to think of the grey knights as the SAS of space marines... better training, equipment, more dedication, there own history. They are no replacement, they were created to do the job others could not..


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Re: Am i the only one?

Post by Primarch on Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:49 am

As stated GKs are a space marine chapter, however I don't like it when people label it as more SM love or just another marine codex. Despite being a SM chapter GKs play very differently to marines. Not only this but GKs have the exception to the 1000 man chapter limit (screw what codex GK says it's not canon anyway) and are produced from a more refined and pure geneseed. What I also see is that GKs have a very direct role in universally preventing the threat of chaos, whilst space marines are in charge of managing and protecting the sector that their fortress monastery occupies.

As for the uber godly powers stuff, most fluff in the new codex is crap and ridiculous, like it was copied out of a 12 year old boys ultimate sci-fi fantasies. Therefore I will ignore it.

To me they epitomise the highly elite but able to respond to all threats. They're all quite good at CC, quite mobile, quite good at shooting but they don't have specialist equipment that makes them godly in any of these (except at killing daemons).

Also I'm sure that no other army can boast being able to field fewer than 15 infantry models effectively in a 2000 - 2500 pt battle. Razz

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Re: Am i the only one?

Post by Constantine on Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:28 am

The last two posts really hit the Daemon..... I mean nail on the head Razz

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Re: Am i the only one?

Post by Zealadin on Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:11 pm

Well GK's aren't a 'chapter' so thats just wrong.
And calling GK's the SAS of the SM is the same as calling the SM the SAS of the guard. Which I am happy to do, but it just means that SM are fancy guard, and GK are fancy SM. Doesn't make sense at all, but its a good way of showing the point I was making.

The Emperor didn't make more Space Marines to fight Chaos, he created the Grey Knights, that are uncorruptable, need far more training and far fewer make it through, and have totally different wargear, history, roles, etc etc etc.

The people who want GK's to -just- be SM are the people who think that SM are the best thing in the universe and cannot stand anyone being a step up from Space Marines. Its the same mentality that makes sure xenos armies rarely stand up to the SM codexes because if GWS give them too much good stuff you suddenly have a hoard of howling 12 year olds crying about how unfair it is.

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Re: Am i the only one?

Post by Titus on Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:15 pm

Actually the Grey Knights are a Space Marine 'Chapter'. They are even designated as Chapter 666. They may not be your average run of the mill space marine and their creation may have been unorthodox, and they may deviate way left of the codex astartes, but they are space marines at the core.

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Re: Am i the only one?

Post by Souba on Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:24 am

Zealadin wrote:Well GK's aren't a 'chapter' so thats just wrong.
And calling GK's the SAS of the SM is the same as calling the SM the SAS of the guard. Which I am happy to do, but it just means that SM are fancy guard, and GK are fancy SM. Doesn't make sense at all, but its a good way of showing the point I was making.

The Emperor didn't make more Space Marines to fight Chaos, he created the Grey Knights, that are uncorruptable, need far more training and far fewer make it through, and have totally different wargear, history, roles, etc etc etc.

The people who want GK's to -just- be SM are the people who think that SM are the best thing in the universe and cannot stand anyone being a step up from Space Marines. Its the same mentality that makes sure xenos armies rarely stand up to the SM codexes because if GWS give them too much good stuff you suddenly have a hoard of howling 12 year olds crying about how unfair it is.

you probably have never read the Daemonhunter Codex did you? directly out of the fluff from the Codex: DH, Page 6 :

"Legend tells that it was around the time of the Second Founding that the Emperor ordered the creation of this secret Chapter of Space Marines."

they have better gear. yes. they have harder training. yes but they ARE still space marines, just with some improvements. they are the space marine chapter 666. read it up.


i personally hate space marines. every damn chapter of them. the only ones i really liked have been GK so far in the way they work. they still run around in power armor (yeah yeah aegis improvemend but still : power armor) and tactical dreadnought armor. they have different combat doctrines and a few parts of their gear is only used by them. but in the damn core they are still space marines.

i dont want to put in a box of those fanwank SM boys because i hate them but you seem to put me in there. the way you GK see so far is that they are the "best of the best of the best" wich comes to a very mary sue like thinking wich is really much worse than the people you described there.

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Re: Am i the only one?

Post by Akoni on Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:40 am

"Legend tells that it was around the time of the Second Founding that the Emperor ordered the creation of this secret Chapter of Space Marines."

Compared to what's within the 5th Edition Codex found on page 6 as well which states:

According to legend, the Grey Knights first appeared during the tumult of the Second Founding , when the the nine loyalist Space Marine Legions were divided into the Chapters of today. Designated Chapter 666, the Grey Knights appeared amongst the growing roster of Space Marines.

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Re: Am i the only one?

Post by Souba on Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:47 pm

Nineteen73 wrote:
"Legend tells that it was around the time of the Second Founding that the Emperor ordered the creation of this secret Chapter of Space Marines."

Compared to what's within the 5th Edition Codex found on page 6 as well which states:

According to legend, the Grey Knights first appeared during the tumult of the Second Founding , when the the nine loyalist Space Marine Legions were divided into the Chapters of today. Designated Chapter 666, the Grey Knights appeared amongst the growing roster of Space Marines.

yup that shows even further that GK are Space marines. i took the reference from the codex : daemonhunters to show that the "another space marine chapter" doesnt come from the new codex but indeed already has been in the 3rd edition.

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Re: Am i the only one?

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