2000pt All GK list vs Space puppies

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2000pt All GK list vs Space puppies

Post by Rivan on Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:51 am

Kyrox and I play tested the lists we are planning to use for a September GT. So GK's and SW's duked it out again Razz

Kyrox' list:

HQ - Wolf Lord w/ Saga of the Bear, frost axe, wolftooth necklace, wolftail talisman, Thunderwolf mount
HQ - Rune Priest w/ JOTWW and Living Lightning, Chooser of the slain
EL - 5 x Wolf Guard (1 w/ TDA, cyclone ML & PF, 4 w/ PA, PF and combi-meltas)
EL - 5 x Wolf Scouts (melta gun)
TR - 8 x Grey Hunters (mark of the wulfen, standard, melta gun); rhino
TR - 8 x Grey Hunters (same); rhino
TR - 8 x Grey Hunters (same); rhino
TR - 5 x Grey Hunters (melta gun); RB w/ TWLLC
FA - 4 x TWC (2 storm shields, 1 PF)
HS - 6 x Long Fangs (5 ML)
HS - 6 x Long Fangs (5 ML)

52 infantry + 5 cavalry + 4 tanks = 61 models

My list:

HQ - GM w/ m-c warding staff, 'cinnie, digital weapons, rad & PS grenades, 3 skulls
EL - 7 x Paladins (1 pcannon/halberd, 1 'cinnie/halberd, 1 BB, 1 warding staff, 1 halberd, 1 hammer, 1 falchions)
TR - 10 x GKSS (2 pcannons, 1 hammer, 7 swords); Rhino
TR - 10 x GKSS (2 pcannons, 1 hammer, 7 swords)
FA - 10 x GKIS (1 pcannon, 1 'cinnie, 8 swords, all have psybolts)
FA - SR w/ TWLMM and TWLLC
HS - LRC

38 Infantry + 1 skimmer + 2 tanks = 41 models

Mission: Capture and Control
Deployment: Spearhead
Kyrox won the roll-off and took first turn. I rolled for GS and got 1 unit so I made the pallies scoring.
His WG split up to lead the other units. He deployed the Long Fangs and the RB (w/ 5 GH + 1 WG embarked). The rest of his army was kept in reserve. I deployed the LRC (w/ GM & pallies) and kept everything else in reserve. One GKSS squad will DS in.

I marked where we each put our objective markers. He put his Chooser on the ruins where his LF were. I spread my 3 skulls across the board.

Turn 1: Long fangs and RB shot at my LRC but nothing went through. My LRC cruised 12" and popped smoke.


Turn 2: All his reserves came in except for his Scouts. The TWC w/ WL came in on the far corner along w/ a rhino. The other 2 rhinos came in on the other side behind the long fangs and the RB. His LF's and RB shot the LRC again but everything bounced off again Smile

On my turn, GM successfully cast Psychic communion but Rune priest blocked it. Both GKSS came in. One squad DS'ed near the ruins where the long fangs were while the other unit arrived in their rhinos and disembarked. This was the "crossroads" point in the game for me. The TWC was actually within move/charge range of my LRC and I seriously considered decapitating his deathstar unit right there and then but I settled on a different path and my LRC sped another 12" the other way and disembarked my HQ unit in front of the long fangs.
Combined shooting from both GKSS squads wiped out the long fangs sitting on the ruins. My HQ unit assaulted and wiped out the other long fang squad w/o any losses.


Turn 3: His scouts didn't come in yet. He moved his rhinos and disembarked 3 squads of Hunters to iight up my pallies. The TWC and the rhino with it continued to make for my objective. His RP used JOTWW and hit my GM, banner pally and hammer pally but they all made their initiative rolls. The 3 Hunter squads rapid fired along with 6 melta shots and 2 pallies go down. RB shoots my rhino and immobilizes it.

On my turn, SR comes in as well as my Interceptors. Both GKSS move forward. The GKSS by the rhino shoot at the 6 man Hunter squad and kill 4. The other GKSS unit and the LRC shoot at the middle 9-man Hunter squad and kill 3. The SR shoots and shakes the RB. The HQ unit shoots/assaults the other Hunter squad w/ the Rune Priest and wipes it out w/ no losses.


Turn 4: His Scouts come in and he decides to put them behind his RB. The Hunter squad w/ 2 remaining models hop in the RB. The other unit shot the pallies and downed another one w/ a melta shot. They assaulted and got wiped out in return. The TWC and rhino continued to head for my objective. On my turn, HQ squad moved towards Scouts and wiped them out w/ 'cinnies and psycannon shots. One GKSS unit moves closer towards his objective. The other GKSS unit embarks in the SR while the SR turns and shoots at the rhino heading for my objective and shakes it. The LRC likewise heads back to my objective to intercept his units.

Turn 5: He tries to tank shock my HQ unit but I pass the test and move out of the way. His TWC escorts the rhino closer to my objective and his Hunters disembark. He's still a little short of the objective though.

On my turn, HQ moves and sits on his objective and wrecks the RB w/ 'cinnies and psycannon shots, forcing the 2 remaining Hunters on the other side of the RB and away from his objective. On the other end of the board, here's where my 2nd turn decision paid dividends. My GKIS shunted right in front of the Hunter squad. The SR moved 12" and disembarked my GKSS squad within 3" of my objective. The LRC moved 12" to block the TWC and aim at the Hunters.

My GKIS, GKSS, LRC and SR shot the Hunters and surprisingly, 1 Hunter survived. I let Kyrox roll the dice and game ends at Turn 5 with GK's winning with 2 objectives to 0 cheers All in all, I only lost 3 paladins.

Lessons/Assessments/Observations:
- The reason I didn't go for the TWC was because I thought the long fangs were more of a threat to my other units, especially the SR. Taking out the Fangs were crucial for me because that negated his long range capability and enabled my mobile units to last the game and make a difference in the end game. Also, in all honesty, I didn't think 2 GKSS squads can break through 3 squads of Hunters plus the Priest.
- Kyrox admitted he really hoped I would go for his TWC Smile He also admitted the he probably should have put the Scouts on my objective instead of vainly trying to stop my HQ squad.
- Again, GM w/ rad/PS grenades along with a pally squad is just plain CRAZY! In 4 assaults, I rolled two 2's, a 3 and a 5 for my PS grenades. They are totally more than worth their cost.
- The pally's 15 extra cost over a GKT is also more than worth it.
- After I secured his objective, I was confident I had the game. Even if the game had continued, all I had to do was wipe out his last Hunter. His TWC can probably wipe out my GKIS and GKSS but his TWC can't claim an objective.

_________________
"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 2000pt All GK list vs Space puppies

Post by Souba on Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:16 am

very nice report. congratulations on that victory.

as for the last discussion NDK vs GKIS i got a question about the interceptors. do you think they made their worth? sure you held them in reserve and they arrived at turn 3 so they didnt had much time to "shine" but what do you think about them?

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Re: 2000pt All GK list vs Space puppies

Post by Valten on Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:57 am

Congratulations on the victory Brother - an excellent battle report.

You seem to have come up with a very nice list; well rounded with enough hitting power. Good call on going to for Long Fangs - their ability to split their fire is one of the most annoying things in the game and could have caused two of your vehicles to be destroyed or immobilised each turn.

On a separate note - I like the images you've posted, especially the half finished Storm Raven. It just looks like the flying Land Raider at the moment!!

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Re: 2000pt All GK list vs Space puppies

Post by Coyote on Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:26 am

Nice battle report Rivan. Thanks for sharing.

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Re: 2000pt All GK list vs Space puppies

Post by madbakery on Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:03 am

Great report! I think you need to paint your table though Very Happy

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Re: 2000pt All GK list vs Space puppies

Post by Aubec le noir on Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:06 am

nice report ... i see that you have a minimalist SR (no need for wings and tail, until it can cargo your troops) ! Razz Razz Wink
i discover more and more every day the worth of pallies !!
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Re: 2000pt All GK list vs Space puppies

Post by Zealadin on Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:19 am

Thats the traditional SR, that runs on pure win and doesn't need wings :p

Nice batrep!

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Re: 2000pt All GK list vs Space puppies

Post by DonFer on Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:35 am

Yeah it doesn't even need a pilot! Very Happy

Thanks for the report and Congrats on the win Rivan!

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Re: 2000pt All GK list vs Space puppies

Post by TheCrimsonGlass on Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:51 am

Great Batrep and congrats on the victory! Kind of makes me rethink my model count on my 2000 point list. Be sure to let us know how you think the IS performed compared to a NDK.

EDIT: I've got a couple questions about the GKSS and SR:
Can you deploy the SS as starting out embarked in the SR?
Can you have the SS in the SR in reserves so as to make the SS DS in the SR (I'm enjoying the acronyms a little too much...)?
If yes to either or both of the first 2 questions, what reasoning would you use to decide to DS (or deploy regularly, for that matter) the SS outside of the SR?

Darnit, one more question: How would you feel about trying to make room for a Libby in this list?

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Re: 2000pt All GK list vs Space puppies

Post by Rivan on Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:37 am

Thanks Brothers. I forgot to mention that the SW RB did shoot at my SR once in the game (can't remember which turn), and rolled two "1's Razz It was actually funny because I was joking with Kyrox before the game and told him he wouldn't be able to hit my SR because of its "small" radar signature.

@Souba/BrentK: The Interceptors were totally worth it. They came in on Turn 3 and didn't go into action till Turn 5 but they did exactly what they were supposed to do. They provided me with a very reliable mobile tactical option.

@madbakery: Razz I know, we have to finish both our GK and SW armies first though lol

@Aubec: Yup. The pallies are so worth it. They're already awesome on their own but when you add a GM w/ rad and PS grenades, they can probably take down almost anything in the game. To be honest, I didn't expect them to do THAT well. I had anticipated that they will slam into the Hunters but will probably get whittled down with shooting and my GKSS squads will come in and mop up. At least that was the plan. Instead, the GM/pallies just cleaned up that side of the board all on their own. It freed up one of my GKSS to support the Interceptors in contesting the other objective.

I also forgot to mention that Kyrox and I have agreed that he probably needs to switch a couple of ML for some lascannons to give him higher strength options agains heavy tanks. There will still be a lot of armies at the tournament sporting AV14 (leman russ's, LR's etc). ML are nice but you have to get lucky to glance AV14. Other than that, he actually has a pretty solid list as well.


Last edited by Rivan on Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:48 am; edited 1 time in total

_________________
"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 2000pt All GK list vs Space puppies

Post by Rivan on Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:48 am

BrentK wrote:Great Batrep and congrats on the victory! Kind of makes me rethink my model count on my 2000 point list. Be sure to let us know how you think the IS performed compared to a NDK.

EDIT: I've got a couple questions about the GKSS and SR:
Can you deploy the SS as starting out embarked in the SR?
Can you have the SS in the SR in reserves so as to make the SS DS in the SR (I'm enjoying the acronyms a little too much...)?
If yes to either or both of the first 2 questions, what reasoning would you use to decide to DS (or deploy regularly, for that matter) the SS outside of the SR?

Darnit, one more question: How would you feel about trying to make room for a Libby in this list?

Yes, SS can start embarked in the SR.
Yes, I believe they can both DS since both have the ability to DS.
One, I'm not inclined to DS the SR unless I have a very wide open area. Two, sometimes I may want to DS the SS close to an objective or a target unit while the SR needs to be someplace else. But it is totally feasible for the SS to be embarked in the SR and they DS together as well.

I would love to add a libby but I just can't justify sacrificng any more bodies.

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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 2000pt All GK list vs Space puppies

Post by TheCrimsonGlass on Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:01 am

Thanks for answering my probably too many questions Rivan! Very Happy

As for the Libby, if you drop the BB Pally, Falchion Pally, 2 5-point options on the GM (probably MC and 'cinnie because your WS6 makes it pretty likely to hit and you can get Warp Rift on your Libby for the template "weapon"), and replace the warding staff with a sword, you'll have 170 points: enough for a Libby with 4 powers, and you've had a total net loss of 1 model. This is, of course, if you're willing to drop those upgrades. Hmmm, I think I may try this actually haha!

Another way to do it is to keep the stave on the pally and 2 5-point upgrades on the GM, drop the stave off the GM (since it costs 15 points more than on the pallies), and add another 5-point upgrade somewhere in the mix. I think I would personally prefer to keep the GM's stave, as his survivability is higher priority and he has more wounds for soaking up hits.

Feel free to tell me to shut the hell up; I promise I'm not trying to change the subject of this thread. I'm sorry if that's what it seems like I'm doing...

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Re: 2000pt All GK list vs Space puppies

Post by Rivan on Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:33 am

Definitely all viable options Brother B. Here are some of my thought processes for my unit's load out:
- GM: Not sure if you've seen my WIP GM in my painting thread but he has this exaggeratedly long warding staff that I converted and it needed to be counter-balanced for aesthetic reasons. I initially gave my GM a p-cannon but that put him at 300pts so I'm using a 'cinnie instead. It's only 5 points and it does wonders prior to assault Smile This load out makes him VERY survivable even against units w/ a hidden PF or TH (since he doesn't have eternal warrior). And with the benefits he gives to the squad, I want him alive as long as possible.
- Pallies: The BB pally and the stave pally are actually crucial to this unit. For me, its all about the synergy b/w the banner and the GM's rad/PS grenades. The banner gives the GM base 4A and everybody else gets base 3A (+1 for charging for everyone). They will be hitting on 3's most of the time thanks to WS5 & 6. Thanks to rad grenades, they will most probably be wounding on 3's most of the time (maybe 2's depending if HH goes off). Last ingredient --PS grenades: Possible auto hits w/ all these attacks are just devastating (I got this result twice in this game).
The stave on the pallies allows me to absorb that 1 or 2 hidden PF or TH attack that might get through. So whether my opponent decides to go for the GM or the squad, I'll have a 2++ save to counter hopefully Smile

So basically, I built on the combo-effects of the grenades and the banner and wanted to maximize the results in sheer number of attacks. The biggest thing I miss in a libby is some form of psychic defense with the hood. I'll just have to rely on aegis and my SR's mindstrike missiles.

EDIT: The BB comes in handy also when rolling for psychic tests is dangerous (runes of warding, shadows in the warp, etc) because of its auto-pass force kill Smile


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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 2000pt All GK list vs Space puppies

Post by TheCrimsonGlass on Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:46 am

Dang... Those are some very good points. I think the main reason for my interest in this list is because it's extremely similar to my list. I've never felt good about the unit count in my list, but this basically fixes that.

Holy hell, how have I missed that fact that the BB gives +1A this whole time?!?! I've always been thinking "who the heck wants to pay 25 points for autoactivation of force weapons?" Don't I feel like a fool...

I was thinking that the Libby may be a bit redundant considering you have 'cinnies, Holocaust, and warding staves, but then I remembered the psychic hood, which totally justified it to me. However, I always forget about those mind-strike missiles... That's a very nice anti-psyker shot right there. On that note, since the missiles are S4 and are technically 4 separate one-shot weapons, could you fire more than 1 in the same shooting phase? I hadn't thought about this before now, but I'm not seeing any rule that prevents it.

EDIT: Also, why heck would they make a psycannon for the GM 45 points and the 'cinnie only 5?! Who in their right mind would think this is a good idea? They might as well have just said "GM's can't have psycannons"! scratch


Last edited by BrentK on Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:51 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: 2000pt All GK list vs Space puppies

Post by Rivan on Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:49 am

Yup, as long as the SR moves a max of cruising speed (12"), you can fire ALL your mind strike missiles since they're counted as defensive weapons.

EDIT: Dang, I just noticed I forgot to fire the mind strike misisles in the last turn when I shot up the last Hunters squad Evil or Very Mad

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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 2000pt All GK list vs Space puppies

Post by Valten on Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:40 pm

Do you think the Incinerator was worth it on the Interceptors? Is it a case that you don't really want to get too close because they'll be assaulted and you lose the advantage of their movement? I know they're 20 points a pop but burning through cover just seems too good.

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Re: 2000pt All GK list vs Space puppies

Post by Rivan on Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:58 pm

The 20 pts for the 'cinnie for the Interceptors is totally worth it. Didn't apply to this game as much but they'll be extremely useful vs. Tau, eldar or IG w/ those pesky pathfinders, rangers or snipers.

I would get 2 of them but I figured I also wanted a good ranged AT weapon that can snipe side or rear armor. I can potentially split them up and each squad can go after their designated target.

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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 2000pt All GK list vs Space puppies

Post by Zealadin on Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:45 am

(or DE)!!!

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Re: 2000pt All GK list vs Space puppies

Post by Rivan on Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:09 am

Zealadin wrote:(or DE)!!!

Yup. I was studying the DE codex and our GKIS are definitely one of the best units to counter their fast units like the Helions. Even when they turbo boost, our Interceptors can shunt and incinerate them with no saves! Evil or Very Mad

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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 2000pt All GK list vs Space puppies

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