GKT/Purifier/Heavy Support

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GKT/Purifier/Heavy Support

Post by Akoni on Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:46 pm

I have a tournament I'm going to participate this month and this is the list I'm going to run.

Your thoughts please.

HQ

(175) GM

TROOPS

(225) 5X GKT (1-DM, 1-PsyC, Halberds)

(225) 5X GKT (1-DM, 1-PsyC, Halberds)

ELITES

(199) 5X Purifiers w/ RB (1-DH, 2-PsyC, Halberds)

(199) 5X Purifiers w/RB (1-DH, 2-PsyC, Halberds)

HEAVY SUPPORT

(270) 2X Dreadnoughts (TLAC - RA &LA, PsyAmmo)

(185) 1X NDK (Incinerator, Great Sword)

(22) POINTS LEFT OVER

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Re: GKT/Purifier/Heavy Support

Post by Torqameda on Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:23 pm

I actually like this list a lot. What you could do (with your remaining 20 points) is combine the two Purifier Squads into a 10-man squad (any Purifier model can upgrade to a Daemon Hammer, so you can still have 2 DH, 4 PsyC, and Halberds to boot), pay the 20 points for Psybolt Ammunition for the rest of the squad, and then simply mount the Razorbacks at the beginning of the game (since, in all likelihood, you will not be disembarking after moving 12", or 24" if you planned on scouting the RB-Purifier squads). Anyways, the Psybolt Ammunition helps a lot by giving you 12 S5 shots for the entire 10-man squad as opposed to 12 S4 shots, and given that you will see a lot of T4 targets, you increase your chances by 16.67 (from 50% to 66.67%) on successful 'To Wound' rolls.

Also, out of curiosity, what is the 1-DM mean for your Terminators? Is that supposed to be DH? Anyhow, I'm assuming that since the NDK has no Personal Teleporter, you will likely be out-flanking with it using Grand Strategy? Or do you plan on using it to be flak?

Great list overall, though my only complaint is how you plan on bringing in the GKT (if you plan on foot-slogging them from the start or DS'ing them in). If you can also find a way to shave of 20 points elsewhere, you could do what I suggested with the Purifiers and make them into one squad, pay the 20 points for Psybolt Ammunition (in this case you are increasing from 16 S4 shots to 16 S5 shots) and then combat squad them at the beginning of the game or whenever they enter (since combat squads need to be declared at deployment).

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Re: GKT/Purifier/Heavy Support

Post by Akoni on Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:43 pm

DM =DH Laughing

I'm still relatively new to any proven strategy.

I went with a redundancy in my list to set up (2) groups.

Each group containing one set of:

GKT
Purifiers w/ Rhino
Dreadnought

This would leave the GM and NDK somewhat "independent'.

I'm not sure how to use the NDK in this list to be honest.

If I combined the Purifiers together for a 10-man squad added PsyAmmo and then combat sqaud them. Can I still take (2) RB for each squad?

If I deep strike, I lack the points for up to (3) Servo Skulls. Is this negligible to the overall strategy.

So my next question is for everyone is if this was the list you had to play how would you play it?


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Re: GKT/Purifier/Heavy Support

Post by Akoni on Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:45 pm

I should point out that I had each RB equipped with TLAC w/ Psyammo

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Re: GKT/Purifier/Heavy Support

Post by Brother Joshua on Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:40 pm

why not get rid of the 2nd razorback and just deploy the 10 man purifiers into 2 squads when they get out... you can make the 1st razorback a rhino and while youl lose the assault cannon youll have enough ponts to upgrade something else. I would give your NDK a personnel teleporter, so you can have a fast attack/heavy unit in your force and maybe you can use grand strategy and make him a troop. It will give him mobility and fire power bonus (because of speed) that you take out by getting rid of that 2nd razorback.
Twisted Evil

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Re: GKT/Purifier/Heavy Support

Post by Valten on Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:03 am

Brother Joshua wrote:why not get rid of the 2nd razorback and just deploy the 10 man purifiers into 2 squads when they get out...

Because you've got to combat squad before setup, and you can't put two squads into a single transport. Nice idea though.

Got to say I really do like this list. It's similar to what I'm planning to go for at 1500, except I'll be using a Librarian.

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Re: GKT/Purifier/Heavy Support

Post by Akoni on Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:38 am

REVISION:

My list maker was off in its calculations so i had to revisit my list:

I've made some alterations based on the points and your advice.

Could you please tell me what you think?

HQ

(175) GM

TROOPS

(470) 10X GKT (2-DH, 2-PsyC, Halberds, PsyAmmo)

(150) 5X GKSS (Swords and Storm Bolters) w/ RB (Heavy Bolters w/ PsyAmmo)

ELITES

(368) 10X Purifiers (2-DH, 4-PsyC, Halberds, PsyAmmo) w/ RB (Heavy Bolters w/ PsyAmmo)

HEAVY SUPPORT

(290) 2X Dreadnoughts (TLAC - RA, PsyAmmo, Doom Fist w/ Heavy Flamer and Psyflame Ammo)

(47) POINTS LEFT OVER

Since the (2) Dread model sprues do not come with LArm TLAC i had to use the doom fist Sad

I'm open to more suggestions on how to spend remaining points or troop choices and strategies.

Any reason to take a Librarian over a GM?

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Re: GKT/Purifier/Heavy Support

Post by Valten on Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:45 am

The Dreadnought models don't come with a TLAC at all, that is a TLLC - just get an Aegis Defence kit and use the TLAC from that?

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Re: GKT/Purifier/Heavy Support

Post by Akoni on Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:01 am

Yeh I've been looking on Ebay too to covert onto my models as well... it' what i will do eventually.

Aside from the TLAC options does this list look competitive?

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Re: GKT/Purifier/Heavy Support

Post by GMKDynamis on Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:56 pm

A 40k Aegis defence is roughly $25 from the store or on EBay with shipping, looks great but expensive for a TLAC upgrade "rifleman-dread". The aegis defense line barriers make great terrain pieces. Good luck.

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Re: GKT/Purifier/Heavy Support

Post by Zealadin on Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:50 am

Only ever buy Psyammo if its being used by 8 guys, just for 6 on the purifiers is a waste.
Also really need that GKSS squad to be 10 man, or its barely worth taking.

Try and get the autocannons as fast as you can. The doomfist/TLAC is barely worth taking compared to the twin TLAC/PsyA

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Re: GKT/Purifier/Heavy Support

Post by Akoni on Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:44 am

I just ordered (2) boxes of the Aegis Defence Line to rectify my TLAC situation! cheers

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Re: GKT/Purifier/Heavy Support

Post by Akoni on Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:21 am

So I took this list and gave it a makeover and based it closer to my 2K variation.

Does look to be more suitable?


HQ

GM

TROOPS

GKT - 10-Man (2-DH, 2-PsyC, Halberds, PsyAmmo)

GKT - 5-Man (1-DH, 1-PsyC, Halberds)

ELITES

Purifiers - 10-man (2-DH, 4-PsyC, Halberds, PsyAmmo) w/ Rhino

HEAVY SUPPORT

(2) Dreadnoughts (2-TLAC , PsyAmmo)

TOTAL

1498


Last edited by Nineteen73 on Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:25 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: GKT/Purifier/Heavy Support

Post by Akoni on Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:24 am

I played last night against my son's Blood Angels.

We played an Annihilation mission and I won 3-2 at the end of Turn 7.

My List

HQ

GM

TROOPS

GKT - 10-Man (2-DH, 2-PsyC, Halberds, PsyAmmo) [Combat Squads Call Signs: GKT 1 and GKT 2]

GKT - 5-Man (1-DH, 1-PsyC, Halberds) [Call Sign: GKT 3]

ELITES

Purifiers - 10-man (2-DH, 4-PsyC, Halberds, PsyAmmo) [Rhino w/Searchlight]

HEAVY SUPPORT

(2) Dreadnoughts (2-TLAC , PsyAmmo) [(1) w/ Searchlight] [Call Signs: DN1 and DN2]

TOTAL

1500

Son's List

HQ

Commander Danter

TROOPS

Sanguinary Guard - 5-Man (Death Mask, Power Fist)

Assault Squad - 10-Man (2-Melta Guns, Power Fist, Melta Bombs)

Tactical Squad - 5-Man (1-Flamer)

ELITES

Terminator Squad - 5-Man (4-Power Fists, 1-Chain Sword, Storm Bolters)

Furioso Dreadnought (Magna Grapple, Extra Armor) [Drop Pod w/ Deathwind Missle launcher]

HEAVY SUPPORT

Dreadnoughts (Extra Armor, MultiMelta, Blood Fist w/SB]

Predator (TLLC, Hurricane Bolters, Hunter Killer Missles, Extra Armor)

TOTAL

1500

SET UP

Me

I won the initiative.

I rolled a 3 for Grand Strategy and assigned both Terminator Squads with Hammer of Righteousness

I placed my 10-man Terminator Squad in reserves to deploy onto the battlefield by "walking" into my corner

I placed my units behind a building from within my corner.

I paired DN 1 with the Rhino (Purifiers)

The other pair consisted of DN 2 and GKT 3

Son

Caddy corner on opposite side of board

Placed Furioso[Drop Pod] and Dante w/ Sanguinary Guard into reserves for Deep Strike

Remainder of troops horded together

TURN 1

Me

Moved DN 1 and Rhino to left side and around the corner of the building

Ran DN 2 and GKT 3 to right side and around the corner of the building

LOS to enemy DN with 4+ CS

Declared shot with DN 1... Missed due to long distance (I was testing to see distance the enemy was outside of 48")

Son

Moved horde outside of building leading with his Predator and using for cover for his Assault Squad

Followed by Terminators and Tactical Squad

Predator shot with his TLLC and Wrecked the Rhino

Purifiers passed Pinning test and disembarked behind wrecked Rhino for CS

TURN 2

Me

Rolled 4 for reserves

Combat Squaded GKT1 and GKT 2 and walked onto my corner of field

(5) GKT 1 joined DN 1 and Purifiers

The other GKT 2 joined DN 2and GKT 3

Ran DN 2 and GKT 3

Moved DN 1 and delcared shot at Predator

Hit Predator and destoyed TLLC and immobilized it (Paybacks a bitch with 2-TLAC w/PsyAmmo!) Twisted Evil

Son

Rolled for reserves and could not deploy

Continued to advance his horde forward

Moved Dreadnought into shooting range

Dreadnought destroyed left TLAC on DN 1

TURN 3

Me

Ran GKT 1 behind DN 1

Moved Purfiers around fronside of wreaked Rhino

Moved DN 2 and GKT 3 forward a little more

Ran GKT 2 toward center of field with support range of all units

DN 1 and DN 2 in firing range of Dreadnought

Both DNs fired at Dreadnought and destroyed all weapons and immobilized it

Son

Rolled for reserves

Dante and Saguinary Guard DS facing DN1, GKT 2, and Purifiers but is not within his shooting range

Advances horde toward backside of Dante and SG

Turn 4

Me

Advance GKT 3 alongside of GKT 2 in middle of field (Mid field had great cover saves and a combination of Impassible, Dangerous, and Difficult terrain)

DN 2 held his position

GKT 1, DN 1, and Purifiers held their postion

GKT 1, DN1, and Purifiers shot at Dante and SG

Dante took 2 wounds and (1) SG died

Son

Rolled for reserves and deploys Drop Pod 7" from DN1, GKT 1, and Purifiers

Furioso disembarks and has blocked LOS from DN 2, GKT 2 and 3 due to Drop Pod

Advances Dante and SG within shooting range of Purifers

Advances rest of Horde (Assault Squad, Terminators, and Tactical Squad)

Drop Pod's Deathwind Missiles kill 4 Purifiers and Dante/SG kill 1 more

Furioso decimates and destroys DN 1

Turn 5

Me

I do not move any troops and went directly to Shooting phase

I destroyed Deathwind Missile Launcher with DN 2

GKT 1 missed all shots on Dante/SG

Purifiers (w/ 3 PsyCannons left at 12 shots) decimated Furioso

Son

Advanced horde just behind Dante/SG but just outside of shooting range

Dante/SG shot at Purifiers leaving only 4 alive

Dante/SG assaulted

Cleansing Flame claimed the life of 1 SG leaving Dante and (3) SG left

Dante and (2) Purifiers had initiative but my Son got all his saves and the Purifiers died

(Question: I did hit with my NF Halberds activated. Does Artificer Armor have an armor save against this?)

1 KP to Son

Score 0 to 1

Turn 6

Rolled 4 and turn continues...
Me

Move GKT 1 midfield and closer to GKT 2 and 3

DN 2 shoots and nothing happens

GKTs all shoot at Dante/SG and kill all Sg and leave Dante w/ 1 wound left

Son

Advances all troops

Dante retreats behind building to lose LOS of my men

Horde attacks all my GKT (15)

(4) GKT die

TURN 7

Rolled 5 and continued turn...

Me

Focused all fire on Assault and tactical Squads with DN 2 and remaining GKTs

Extremely successful rolls and took the lead in KP 2 to 1

Son

Advanced Dante and Terminators

However, after shooting and assault phase was complete he failed to kill off any unit

CONCLUSION

I WON! cheers

Remaining on battlefield:

Me

GM

(1) Dreadnought

(10) GKT

Son

Dante

(3) Terminators

Immobilized: Dreadnought, Furioso, and Predator

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Re: GKT/Purifier/Heavy Support

Post by Rivan on Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:35 am

Artificer armor doesn't offer protection vs. force weapons. They need an invul save for that.

Also, are you only counting KP for Troops choices? Looks like you guys killed more units than what your score indicates scratch

Great batrep! Congrats Very Happy

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Re: GKT/Purifier/Heavy Support

Post by Akoni on Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:44 am

Being that my son and I are still very new to WH 40K I wouldn't be surprised if we erred in our game play and rulings. Wink

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Re: GKT/Purifier/Heavy Support

Post by Rivan on Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:00 pm

No worries. Father-son times are awesome anyway. I can relate since I play a lot w/ my son too Very Happy

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"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: GKT/Purifier/Heavy Support

Post by Akoni on Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:47 pm

I have a few questions to ask.

1) 2X TLAC vs 2X TLAC on a dreadnought (w/ PsyAmmo)

What I mean is a Twin Linked Auto Cannon vs Twin Linked Assault Cannon

Which do you prefer?

As was analyzing the differences and wished I had the Assault Cannon at times because it is Heavy 4 and Rending. I know I lose half the distance to shoot over and against the Auto Cannon but it seems a lil more cheesier.

This brings me to my next question:

The Assault Cannon has Rending and automatically wounds/penetrates on a Wound Roll of 6 and counts as AP 2.

Does a model get any saves against this type of wound?

AP2: is this a -1 to D6 roll for Vehicle Damage Table?

Now when comparing to an Auto Cannon with Str: 8 (PsyAmmo) and AP 4. Are there bonuses for roll a 6?


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Re: GKT/Purifier/Heavy Support

Post by Rivan on Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:12 pm

Ok, let's break this down:

- as far as I know, the assault cannon on dreads doesn't come twin-linked so you won't re-roll misses with the assault cannon.
- When you roll rending (6's) w/ the assault cannon, your opponent can only roll invul or cover saves if he has them. If not, then he gets no saves.
- AP2 basically means it will go through any armor saves of 2 or worse...meaning it will even go through a terminator's 2+ armor save.
- Unless a weapon's profile has the Rending rule, it won't get any bonuses on rolls of 6's.

Hope this helps Smile

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"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: GKT/Purifier/Heavy Support

Post by TheCrimsonGlass on Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:19 pm

If you think about it, an Assault Cannon with psybolt ammo is the same thing as a psycannon. That's why people don't normally take it though, you're paying a bunch of points to make yourself better at something you already do very well (24" range shooting, that is). Grey Knights desperately lack ranged shooting above 24", and the TL Autocannon dread w/ psybolt ammo is a cheap and effective way to do this. Does that mean an Assault Cannon dread isn't a viable option? Not at all, but there are other ways to both get more psycannons in your army and use a non-psyflemen dread. The first point is simple: for about the same cost, you can have 5 purifiers with 2 psycannons. The second point is that a multi-melta would probably be better than the "psycannon" on the dread. This is because we need more anti-vehicle, as S7 psycannons (and even S8 psyflemen) often just don't quite cut it, especially against AV14.

I've often thought of taking a ven dread with a multi-melta and CCW, but I just haven't gotten around to trying to incorporate it in any of my lists.

I believe a model gets its invuln save and maybe cover save against the shots that rend, but someone else will need to verify that.

AP2 is not a -1 roll to the vehicle damage table. AP2 isn't any kind of modification to the table, but AP-- is indeed a -1 to the damage table. AP1, however, is a +1 to the table. That's why AP1 weapons (like the multi-melta I mentioned above) are so good at anti-vehicle.

This information is all available in the quick reference sheet provided by GW. It's on the second page a little below the center of the page. Here's the link: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1180126_Warhammer_40,000_(5th_Edition)_Reference_Sheet.pdf

I recommend printing out this reference sheet and using it, as it is very handy when trying to keep a game moving forward (I most certainly keep one on me when I'm playing).

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Re: GKT/Purifier/Heavy Support

Post by Akoni on Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:07 pm

Thanks for the reference Brothers Rivan and BrentK.

So I believe I'm sorely misunderstanding the Vehicle Damage Table.

For example this how I understood it.

AP 1 weapons get a +1

And I thought AP- was equal to any other type of AP #, like AP 4 or AP 2.

So if a weapon with AP 2 or 4 hits a vehicle is there no modifier to add or subtract then?

Again, thanks for the reference, It's the same one I'm using from the BRB. But again, I believe I'm not as good at interpreting rules as you guys are.


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Re: GKT/Purifier/Heavy Support

Post by Rivan on Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:21 pm

Just takes getting used to Smile But yes, you are right, only AP1 and AP-- weapons get a modifier on the table.

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"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: GKT/Purifier/Heavy Support

Post by TheCrimsonGlass on Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:26 pm

AP1 weapons do get a +1.

AP does not effect a vehicle in any way whatsoever unless it is AP1 or AP--.

AP-- means that the shot is so bad a penetrating armor that there is no armor value that is negated by it. Furthermore, it's so bad a penetrating armor that it gets a -1 on the damage table (meaning it can never cause a 'vehicle explodes' result unless it is fire at an open-topped vehicle since the open-topped vehicle negates the -1 with a +1).

This means that AP1 is the "best" and AP-- is the "worst". Everything between AP1 and AP-- does not have any effect on vehicles. It only effects the armor saves that units with armor saves would get. An AP2 weapon (along with an AP1 weapon, of course) denies all armor saves, an AP3 weapon denies all armor saves except for 2+ armor saves, an AP4 weapon denies armor saves of 4+, 5+, and 6, an AP5 weapon denies armor saves of 5+ and 6, an AP6 denies armor saves of 6, and AP-- doesn't deny any armor saves. So if an AP1, AP2, or AP3 weapon fires at a strike squad unit, then that strike squad unit does not get its 3+ armor save. Conversely, if an AP4, AP5, AP6, or AP-- fires at a strike squad unit, then the unit does get its 3+ armor save.

When an armor save is denied by a weapon's AP, then the unit only gets its invulnerable or cover save, whichever is better.

Hope that clearified it.

EDIT: I'm sure you already knew at least most of what I typed up here, but better safe than sorry Wink


Last edited by BrentK on Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:27 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: GKT/Purifier/Heavy Support

Post by Akoni on Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:29 pm

YES!!!!! THANKS AGAIN BROTHER!!!! bounce

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Re: GKT/Purifier/Heavy Support

Post by DonFer on Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:34 pm

I read your post aloud and actually got dizzy on the ammounts of AP references you put in there.... Razz

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Re: GKT/Purifier/Heavy Support

Post by Sponsored content Today at 7:33 am


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