Knights Templar 1750

In response to my absolute BEATING by Dark Eldar i'm reconsidering Black Templars as my main non-Grey Knights force.

Land Raiders are way to go, but they're very expensive. So two lists i'm considering:

One revolves around a very fast moving rhino list that sacrifices long range power for close combat power. and the other (the one i'm really considering) has 2 landraiders and command squads and a token troops force...

First idea:

Emp Champion with small Sword Brethren squad in a land raider along with 5 rhinos full of melta and powerfists. all have extra armour so any stunned results = they're still goign to move towards you.

HQ

Emperor’s Champion
Vow: Accept Any Challenge
140

ELITES

Sword Brethren Squad (5 man)
Furious Charge
Frag Grenades
Melta Gun
130

TROOPS

Crusader Squad (9 man)
Melta Gun
Powerfist
DT: Rhino w/ Smoke Launchers & Extra Armour
237


Crusader Squad (9 man)
Melta Gun
Powerfist
DT: Rhino w/ Smoke Launchers & Extra Armour
237

Crusader Squad (9 man)
Melta Gun
Powerfist
DT: Rhino w/ Smoke Launchers & Extra Armour
237

Crusader Squad (9 man)
Melta Gun
Powerfist
DT: Rhino w/ Smoke Launchers & Extra Armour
237

Crusader Squad (9 man)
Melta Gun
Powerfist
DT: Rhino w/ Smoke Launcher & Extra Armour
237

HEAVY SUPPORT

Land Raider
Smoke Launchers
Blessed Hull
Extra Armour
293


This is all well and good but can't help feeling it's not very Templarish......and while rhinos are good they're also very fragile.

instead there is this idea:



Master of Sanctity
Artificer Armour
Terminator Honours
Melta Bombs
150

Master of Sanctity
Artificer Armour
Terminator Honours
Melta Bombs
150

Emperor’s Champion
Vow: Abhor the Witch, Destroy the Witch
110

Command Squad (10 man)
Apothecary
Frag Grenades
Flamer
Melta Gun
Furious Charge
234
DT:
Land Raider Crusader
Blessed Hull
Smoke Launchers
293

Command Squad (10 man)
Apothecary
Frag Grenades
Flamer
Meltagun
Furious Charge
234
DT:
Land Raider Crusader
Blessed Hull
Smoke Launchers
293

TROOPS

Crusader Squad (5 man)
5 Initiates
Missile Launcher
DT: Rhino w/ Smoke Launchers
143

Crusader Squad (5 man)
5 Initiates
Missile Launcher
DT: Rhino w/ Smoke Launchers
143

1750


Here the land raiders are out front with extra armour, so anything had better immobilise or worse, with smoke launchers so they can survive better. the rhinos hang back firing missiles. In close combat the command squads will dominate just about anything. the only thing they're lacking is power weapons....

The land raiders only provide defense against lances, I'd tend to say your other list is more balanced, and your opponent will probably take some heat lances to combat the new raiders. They won't get the lance effect, but with 2d6 pen they will still be nasty.

You could try playing again, and make sure the board has plenty of cover and you can set up your army in a way that limits first turn damage.
Swapping the Preds for some ML Devs might present a better threat.

He always uses the same list so there's no heat lances in it. List tailoring? no cause it's for use against any army, not just DE.

Swapping preds for ML devs might work.....but he has bloody nightshields on everything.

Yea thats why I like your first army, I think in some respects it will do better against alot of other armies.
Do you remember what your friends DE army includes?

He has 2 ravagers, 4 raiders, a razorwing fighter, 2 trueborn units with 4 blasters in each, 2 kabalite warrior units with splinter rifles, an archon with melta, a unit of incubi.

There isn't much he can't outshoot.

I will consider the first templar army but i'm also rejigging the Knights of Eternity list to look like this:

HQ


Captain Laertes )
Artificer Armour
Relic Blade
Combi-Flamer
Hellfire Rounds
Melta Bombs
170

Librarian Phobos
The Avenger
Gate of Infinity
Terminator Armour
Storm Shield
140

Command Squad (5 man)
Company Champion
Storm Shields x 4
Melta Guns x 2
Power Swords x 3
260


ELITES

Techmarine Marius
Servo Harness
75

TROOPS

Tactical Squad (5 man)
DT: Razorback w/ T-L
Plasma Gun & Lascannon
165

Tactical Squad (5 man)
DT: Razorback w/ T-L Plasma Gun & Lascannon
165

Tactical Squad (5 man)
DT: Razorback w/ T-L Plasma Gun & Lascannon
165




Tactical Squad (5 man)
DT: Razorback w/ T-L Plasma Gun & Lascannon
165

Scout Squad (5 man)
Sniper Riflesx 4
Hellfire Heavy Bolter
Camo Cloaks x 5
100

HEAVY SUPPORT

Vindicator
115

Vindicator
115

Vindicator
115


1750



My big problem was no Feel No Pain with the Terminator Squad in my last game. This time the enemy has to make sure the squad dies, and with Feel No Pain in effect AND Storm Shields taking anything stronger the enemy can throw their way the command squad should be able to hold its own.
The scout squad was a huge disappointment last time. This time it should be able to dish out more pain as the techmarine can reinforce the building they're using for cover to give them a 2+ cover save!
The techmarine will also let me repair the damned immobilised tanks and weapon destroyed results.

DE can generally do alot of damage if they shoot first, but also die to almost anything if they take the first round of fire.
He has 6 open topped AV10/11 and 1 AV11 vehicle, Vindicators can do some damage, but your in his perfect threat range to do so, especially with his trueborn.

FNP will really help versus his massed fire, but he has enough lances that Termies will always be in trouble without SS, although with them they end up slow and easily avoided.
CML's on termies is a good choice versus DE.

I know. I was considering Predators, but three vindicators seemed a better option
He likes to bunch up his raiders so three large blasts at Str 10 would annihilate most of his stuff

And now that i have 4 lascannons he has to target prioritise. before heavy bolters were only a mild threat and the vindicators were obvious main target

The problem with the vindicators is you need to get close, and he is faster than you are. If you had Fast BA Vindicators its a bit easier, but your still using the normal SM codex I assume.
If your able to start far enough forward he will have really hard target priority choices, but if its more like 36-42ish, he'll be able to concentrate on your razors for a turn before vindicators present a real threat.

You'll need to use your vindicators as a bullwark with their higher armour fronts to push into his range, and hope he doesn't get too lucky.
On the bright side you can try a tiered vehicle wall, that should give most vehicles cover except the first. The disadvantage can be that you can get immobilised and end up parking your own vehicles in.
You should also be able to shoot your Las/Plas razors over the Vinds with careful placement.

yeah 24" is a drag. But moving 6" I should be able to fire 30"!

And yeah careful placing may help.

What i'm thinking is using razrorbacks to screen the vindicators, moving 6" with everything and then using the cracks to fire the vindicators through

Hmmm that would work too.
Have you considered rifleman dreads? @ 48" they outdistance basically anything DE have, and they are perfect for taking out their transports.
4 shots TL, S7 is really nasty versus DE.
They also sit backfeild and are ideal in cover.

yes, two things stop me:

1. I'm not going to face DE every time, so need something that can give me an edge. 3 Vindicators against an army that can't use Lances is pretty good edge.

2. If i'm taking riflemen i'll change to GK and take psynaughts!