2000pt batrep vs tau

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2000pt batrep vs tau

Post by MJSwasey on Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:30 pm

I've been experimenting with all types of lists lately to see what works for me. I take a solid core and mess around with about 500 points or so each game until i see how things work and interplay. Part of learning the codex for myself, instead of just relying on the internet, and part nova open prep

ME:
Draigo
10 paladins - 4 psycannons, 2 hammers, 2 halberds, 2 swords ( wound allocated goodness!)
10 strike squad, MCDHammer, 2 psycannons, psybolts
10 strike squad, MCDHammer, 2 psycannons, psybolts
10 Intercepters, 2incinerators, MCDHAMMER
teleporting DK w/ sword, heavy psycannon (yes i know, terrible loadout, i just wanted to try out a bunch of things at once.


He took (roughy)
Commander -Plasma/missles/2drones positional relay
2x Crisis plasma/missiles
3x crisis plasma/missile 2 drones
3x crisis Plasma/melta
6x fire warriors
6x fire warriors
13x kroot
13x kroot
5x pathfinders+devilfish
5x pathfinders+devilfish
Railgun Hammerhead
3x Broadsides, plasma, multi trackers 2 drones
3x broadsides, plasma, multi trackers 2 drones

Standard tau stuff, castle and bubblewrapmin FW and devilfish and outlfanking kroot reserved and coming in late to claim, etc

We rolled "roll dice and tie" (capture and control) on pitched battle. He made me go first. the board had a LOS piece in each corner, a two tiered 1.5'x1.5' hill in the center, and various tress and barracades and other small hills scattered about.

I got one unit for my grand strategy. before reading on, what would you have done with the grand strategy?

I gave the termies scout. I put my obj behind a LOS blocker, and he put his behind his los blocker in the opposite side.

I put a strike squad and the dreadknight near my obj (far left), out of los, and then packed the termies (combat squadded) directly across from his objective (far right) as far forward as possible. i put the teleporters just out of los near the termies, combat squadded one flamer in each. i put the other half of the obj strike squad behind the termies, and a 10 man strike squad in my center forest, using hill to block far los but still able to see the middle of the board on of each side and move either way

He deployed in between both objectives, on neither, with kroot outflanking, and a devilfish and two 6 man FW squads in reserve.

I scouted forward, then ran forward, taking some potshots. Draigo joined pallys to absorb railguns, and the jump troops went straight left and straight forward. I managed to kill the only pathfinders that could see me, but nothing else.

He shot at me, and moved the devilfish to block my pallys (who were half way across the board, thanks scout!). He jumped his crisis suit forward, well out of assault range but easily double tappable, since he wasn't too worried about the psycannons.

I kept moving forward with everything, and teleported up, goin far left with the D and deep into his lines to flame kroot and pathfinders. pathfinders died, kroot ran. He saw some pallies, a strike squad, and draigo coming stright for his lines, but he was missing the pallies and strike squad that hugged the right wall, closer and closer to his obj.

I was well within his kill zone now, as he killed all of the stuff that teleported in, and used the fish to block the pallies. a devilfish came in on his right (my left)

The pallies and draigo surged forward, just about one turn away from assault now. The right side got to the obj/

He finished off the pallies and started moving all 9 suits forward, leaving the railguns to finish off draigo next turn.

I moved my mid squad back towards the left obj, and ran for the los blocking terrain, and moved draigo up.

He finished off draigo, shot up my 10 man squad (down to three, horrible die rolls, missed 5/6 4+ and 2/3 3+, and advanced.

I moved the pallies and strike squad on the right to block off the objective from his troops that would walk on, and assaulted some too close crisis suits.

He tried to walk around my right side, but couldn't get far enough. The kroot outflank onto the Obj, killing my 3 man squad, and the 5 man squad is eaten by 6 crisis suits (WTF??!?!?)

We successfully base traded for a tie.

I found the lack of things that doubled out his crisis or penned armor really hurt, as i rend maybe twice a game and you can't catch crisis suits.
I found the DK to die like a punk to poor rolling, but he still would just hit one squad THEN died if he lived. The large blast was ok, not great, as it was all 3+ saves or cover.

I need more mobility!

I should have only sent one squad up the right. paladins are tough, and great obj holders, and firing 8 psycannon shots on the move from a 5 man squad isn't bad!

I shouldn't have started anyone mid. I should have committed front guys to moving up and left the rest in the back, so i coulda hid on the obj out of los and not get shot up, and win that fight.

scout is BALLER. turn one termies are halfway across the board, hitting the back edge of enemies deploy zone? yes please.

One attack sucks in CC. Sucks.

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Re: 2000pt batrep vs tau

Post by DonFer on Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:03 am

Great report. It's a learning curve so you'll be much more prepared next time. Perhaps saving the Interceptors jump for those pesky Crisis Suits.

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Re: 2000pt batrep vs tau

Post by MJSwasey on Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:28 am

I thought about doing that, but the problem is that while you do cause some wounds, they can wound allocate and you don't pen their armor. So i put 6 wounds on the squad, and on average maybe a drone would die and a suit would take a wound, but no real damage. they just don't do enough vs armor, in my opinion, and i'm really feeling the lack of low ap.

perhaps if i double flamed one squad then psycannoned it i would have been successful, but thats a lot of my armor for not alot of theirs

I dunno, what do you think? How did you envision using the jump against crisis suits? my mind isn't coming up with a successful way.

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Re: 2000pt batrep vs tau

Post by Aubec le noir on Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:42 am

i agree you need mobility and as far as i know, LR is still over the top, followed by the SR.
maybe replace the DK ( at minimum against Tau) for a LR or a SR ... scratch
against Crisis ... why don't you took them in cc : they are though but not so good in cc, and while you're struggling against them, they don't shoot your other units to hell... Wink
did you have the opportunity to assault them ?? with which unit ??
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Re: 2000pt batrep vs tau

Post by rogueuk on Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:21 pm

ah tau only game I\'ve lost so far and with a big margin of victory too
i tryed deepstriking and it was horrific

good report i too feel your pain maybe like aubec said but in afew land raiders could help or try orbital relay that would thin the tau lines and possible a vechile or too

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Re: 2000pt batrep vs tau

Post by MJSwasey on Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:22 pm

Just a note that i never know when i'm playing tau, i always construct all comers lists before i know who i'll play.

I fear that only 1-2 SR/LR would die too quickly to the six railguns, where as the DK has at least a few wounds. perhaps even more vehicles? or more DKs?

And no, i would LOVE to charge crisis suits as often as possible, but sadly their JSJ capabilities make it impossible to do against a competent opponent in the open field.

The being eaten by 6 crisis suits was a bunch of flubbed rolls for me and good rolls for him, but the fact it's possible without going to far out of probability shows that we really did suffer a bit of a CC hit on the basic troop.

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Re: 2000pt batrep vs tau

Post by DonFer on Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:34 am

Six railguns and enough distance will obliterate whatever you field, be it LRs or SRs. The trick is to field enough threats so that the Tau Player will not focus fire on your important units and blow them to oblivion.

Tau is a very interesting army to face for us GKs since they play the same game we intend to play, but do it much much better (that is, shoot from afar and avoid CC as much as possible). Hence our SB/Psycannon strategy isn't going to bring you anything against a foe that does the same with S10, AP 1 guns all over the army. More so if he's shooting from far behind the game board, and has high mobility to run away from your attacks.

My take would be using Servos and Librarians in order to have the "jump" advantage early in the game, thus commiting a lot of units near the inmediate threat of the railguns (wherever they may be), and have enough distance to CC them in a turn or two. This should be done in conjuction of long range units backing up your deepstrikers. Las/Plas Razbck or Dreads, LRs or SR should do the trick. It's a blank page right now, the codex is new and the posibilities are still endless. Let us know how you'll modify your army for these kind of threats. Smile

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Re: 2000pt batrep vs tau

Post by Titus on Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:46 am

Did you flub your force Weapon roll?

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Re: 2000pt batrep vs tau

Post by MJSwasey on Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:46 pm

Force weapons would have done nothing, as the three wounds i caused were all allocated to drones (1 wound models)

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Re: 2000pt batrep vs tau

Post by Zealadin on Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:40 am

You don't want to stay at range and fire against Tau, in fact you only want to do that versus either CC orientated armies, or armies you can outshoot and outlast.

Against anyone extremely weak in CC, like Tau or Necron you want to get into combat as quickly as possible while removing vehicle threats.
THe bonus side is that our stormbolters and PsyCa are still very effective against all their infantry, its just a matter of making sure you aren't taking too much fire and use cover.

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Re: 2000pt batrep vs tau

Post by MJSwasey on Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:52 pm

so how would you get in close? deep striking still leaves you 2 turns from attacking (you deep strike over 6" away, and they move back 6"), most vehicles get punked by the 6 railguns and 12 s7 missiles and 3 meltaguns, and walking up to within 12" is laughable (to walk within 12" of his army would mean no cover, which would mean on average he wipes 25+ marines off the board, or around15 terminators.)

And if you SOMEHOW find cover for a squad, pathfinders.

Sometimes, generic conventional wisdom doesn't work.

In fact, i think my only mistake this game WAS trying to get in CC with the tau. If i had instead left the dreadknight back and the extra squad of pallys back, there was NO WAY he would get anywhere close to my objective, and the worst outcome possible was 1-0 I win, with a possible 2-0 win.

If i had tried to get into CC even more, i would be way off of objectives, have been torn to shreds, and his last turn outflankers/contesters would have had an even easier time of things.


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Re: 2000pt batrep vs tau

Post by rogueuk on Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:36 pm

every thing you just said is what i tryed to do and what the tau player i was against did and i got absoluty hammered in the open and the patherfinders killed my cover

at the moment i cant think of a good way to win against tau

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Re: 2000pt batrep vs tau

Post by DonFer on Mon May 02, 2011 7:12 am

The worst thing you can do against Tau, is trying to beat them in their own game. Better bring the battle to them, as quickly as possible. Otherwise you'll be sitting Ducks, while the Tau sits back and enjoys every shooting phase.

As Lando Calrisian so wisely said: "I said *closer*! Move as close as you can, and engage those Star Destroyers (TAU) at point blank range!" Very Happy

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Re: 2000pt batrep vs tau

Post by MJSwasey on Mon May 02, 2011 8:21 pm

DonFer- please read what was said above. Theres a number of reasons why that isn't true in many situations. Yes, many times it is best to close in against tau, and most of us know that.

However, in this thread, closing in was one of the worst things i could do. that was the point of the above posts.

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Re: 2000pt batrep vs tau

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