The Terminus Decree: Are you ready to kill The Emperor?

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The Terminus Decree: Are you ready to kill The Emperor?

Post by Sai on Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:08 pm

The Terminus Decree on page 9 of the codex reminded me of the background for the Sensei and Illuminati in The Realms of Chaos books. The basic idea is that the Emperor's mind and body are falling apart and at some point it will be in the best interest of humanity for him to die, at which point he will either be reborn as a man once again or become a full god. There's also a lot of evidence for this in the Inquisition background and teh Inquisitor War novels. On one hand this would destroy the Imperium as the Astronomican would be extinguished ('bring the Imperium to its knees') but on the other The Emperor would be freed up and made sane again to go kick some ass ('save it in its darkest hour') whether as mortal or god. The seal on the box is the same as the one on the Golden Throne so there's a definite link there, and it makes sense that this duty would fall to the Grey Knights: Their loyalty is such that they would kill the Emperor if the decree ordered them to do so. They are entirely capable of killing anything that gets in their way be it loyalist or traitor and holding the throne room until the deed is done; and with them being based in the solar system it would take no time for them to get to Terra.

Obviously it's a last-ditch-if-all-else-fails-matrix-of-leadership-light-our-darkest-hour plan, but it would appear that the Grey Knights will be there in the final battle. Just not on the side you might think.

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Re: The Terminus Decree: Are you ready to kill The Emperor?

Post by Constantine on Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:22 pm

Interesting concept.
I would have to do more research before I took a stance because I haven't read the =I= war novels .
My unresearched gut reaction to this approach is that it seems like a pretty big gamble.......
Humanity really is Fu@ked without the psychic beacon from the emperor to guide its ships through the warp. So I do not see any Imperial bodies sanctioning such an action.


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Re: The Terminus Decree: Are you ready to kill The Emperor?

Post by Souba on Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:01 pm

interesting concept indeed. im just wondering why the custodes. probably the most loyal and on top of that oldest of the emperors "marines" are not getting the Terminus Decree.

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Re: The Terminus Decree: Are you ready to kill The Emperor?

Post by Rivan on Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:51 pm

According to the fluff in the GK codex, the Emperor deemed that the Custodes didn't have "enough free will", hence the creation of the GK's. Maybe its this same reason the custodes weren't entrusted w/ the terminus decree scratch

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Re: The Terminus Decree: Are you ready to kill The Emperor?

Post by Sai on Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:51 pm

Well the Custodes have thousands of years of protecting the Emperor/ sitting around not doing much.
The Grey Knight's have been in the morally grey area and follow orders no matter what they may be.

I hadn't thought much about the Custodes: the Knights will almost definitely have to kill them.
On the other hand, if Jaq Draco can sneak into the throne room I'm sure a supreme grandmaster/ head librarian can use a little stealth to get in there.

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Re: The Terminus Decree: Are you ready to kill The Emperor?

Post by Macharius on Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:51 am

Brother Sai

What you say is Herasy in the highest degree. The Adpts Custodian are the Emperor's Personal Guard and they only number about 300. It is now impossible to create one. And they are far surpasted that of a Spacemarine let alone the Grey Knights. 1 Custodian Guard is equal to about 20 Grey Knight Terminators.

I am a 40k historian and I know and have read how hard it is to hit thin air. the Guards at 1000's of times faster than a spacemarine's reflexes. and they wear displaciton field generators that render them invisable and they are Null's so they can not be seen by Psyker's hence why they lack free will.

But you stating you want to kill the Emperor. I and my 15th Company of Grey Knights would not stand for! And I will side with the Emporer if it came to it!

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Re: The Terminus Decree: Are you ready to kill The Emperor?

Post by Sai on Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:06 am

But if the order to kill the Emperor comes from The Emperor it makes you the traitor if you disobey it. Penetration of the Imperial Palace would be aided by the fact that a strong facet of the Emperor's will would wish the plan to be carried out. What the other facets want is entirely unknown though, and blind devotees of The Emperor will doubtless impede the Grey Knight's path.


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Re: The Terminus Decree: Are you ready to kill The Emperor?

Post by Rivan on Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:33 am

Macharius wrote:Brother Sai

What you say is Herasy in the highest degree. The Adpts Custodian are the Emperor's Personal Guard and they only number about 300. It is now impossible to create one. And they are far surpasted that of a Spacemarine let alone the Grey Knights. 1 Custodian Guard is equal to about 20 Grey Knight Terminators.

I am a 40k historian and I know and have read how hard it is to hit thin air. the Guards at 1000's of times faster than a spacemarine's reflexes. and they wear displaciton field generators that render them invisable and they are Null's so they can not be seen by Psyker's hence why they lack free will.

But you stating you want to kill the Emperor. I and my 15th Company of Grey Knights would not stand for! And I will side with the Emporer if it came to it!

Not sure if 1 custodian guard is = 20 GKT. I think that's debatable. I concur that they are superior to a SM though. Also, I don't believe they are Nulls because they had to work side by side w/ the Sisters of Silence for psychic defense during the Great Crusades, especially when they helped in the assault on Prospero.

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"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: The Terminus Decree: Are you ready to kill The Emperor?

Post by Aubec le noir on Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:40 am

i saw this part of fluff in the codex (with the one that clearly states now that the progenoid glands of the GK contains genes of the Emperor) and get very enthousiastical with it.
imho GK would accomplish the terminus decree as soon as it really is ordered by the Emperor ... but imho again i think they'll have very hard times to pass through (kill) the Custodes that are the bodyguards of THIS Emperor particularly ... i don't think the Custodes will freely kill the Emperor even if they see it written by the same hand of the Emperor itself.
but it would be a beautiful and dramatic scene ("novelling" speaking) indeed !! affraid study

it will be very interesting to search a bit more in the fluff (old and new) to see what could be this Terminus Decree.... study cheers

in the same area of thoughts what do you think is hidden in the purifier zone of the Anarch Mount (another Chaos God ?) ??

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Re: The Terminus Decree: Are you ready to kill The Emperor?

Post by Sai on Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:11 am

The Balrog.

Maybe the C'Tan who's supposed to be on Mars is actually on Titan. Psykers were created by the Old Ones to fight them, so maybe the Purifiers are what are needed to hold it in check.


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Re: The Terminus Decree: Are you ready to kill The Emperor?

Post by Kavanar on Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:51 pm

In the book the Horus Heresy - Horus Rising aren't the guardians to the emperor of the planet have a similar type of body guard as they were invisible and had lighting reflexs. So if they are similar, boltguns seemed pretty effective against them...

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Re: The Terminus Decree: Are you ready to kill The Emperor?

Post by Constantine on Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:05 pm

Rivan wrote:
Macharius wrote:Brother Sai

What you say is Herasy in the highest degree. The Adpts Custodian are the Emperor's Personal Guard and they only number about 300. It is now impossible to create one. And they are far surpasted that of a Spacemarine let alone the Grey Knights. 1 Custodian Guard is equal to about 20 Grey Knight Terminators.

I am a 40k historian and I know and have read how hard it is to hit thin air. the Guards at 1000's of times faster than a spacemarine's reflexes. and they wear displaciton field generators that render them invisable and they are Null's so they can not be seen by Psyker's hence why they lack free will.

But you stating you want to kill the Emperor. I and my 15th Company of Grey Knights would not stand for! And I will side with the Emporer if it came to it!

Not sure if 1 custodian guard is = 20 GKT. I think that's debatable. I concur that they are superior to a SM though. Also, I don't believe they are Nulls because they had to work side by side w/ the Sisters of Silence for psychic defense during the Great Crusades, especially when they helped in the assault on Prospero.

In The First Heretic one squad of Word Bearer possesed marines killed 5 Custodes, so I don't really think they are as tough as you say they are. It was observed that teh custodes fight as individuals, and not as a unified force, which proves to be their undoing. GKs are very much a unified force that IMHO is more than capable of storming the throne room should the need arise.

I still don't see killing the Emperor as a viable option though. If he is killed, there is no navigation beacon = no protection for Terra from defenders out of system. Chaos forces will still be able to travel the warp = Terra will be destroyed.
Kind of a big gamble don't you think?

The only way to ensure that Terra was protected would be to tell everyone what you had planned so that they could come back to Terra to defend it. But I am more than certain that the majority of the imperium's forces would not support this decision.

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Re: The Terminus Decree: Are you ready to kill The Emperor?

Post by DarkRonin on Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:15 pm

This could also mean that the Emperor is awaiting for the day that he will be reborn as the Star Child. By finally accomplishing reincarnation, Humanity will finally be able to move on with the Emperor no longer barred to the Golden Throne (no thanks for Magnus for that one). It would seem that gathering His lost Children would be for the benefit of the entire Imperium then.

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Re: The Terminus Decree: Are you ready to kill The Emperor?

Post by Sai on Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:50 pm

The loss of the navigational beacon would result in thousands of worlds being lost, but humanity would presumably survive under the protection of the god-emperor/ starchild. It's definitely a gamble, but it is in a box marked 'if the end of humanity is imminent open this and follow the instructions.'

I always got the feeling Cypher might be on the same type of mission. He's working his way to Terra to ask forgiveness and put The Emperor out of his misery. Meanwhile he seems to do quite well spreading extra chaos in the chaos forces.

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Re: The Terminus Decree: Are you ready to kill The Emperor?

Post by itsuperslug on Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:41 am

From Lexicanum

Star Child
The Emperor is the incarnation of the extinct Shamans who, with their prophetic powers and connection to the warp in its natural and uncorrupted form, had guided ancient mankind. After Horus rebelled and destroyed the Emperor's mortal frame, his body and soul could no longer remain as one; his soul melted into the warp, only a tiny core of the Emperor's humanity remaining whole, which was like a small child in a tiny reed boat adrift in the storm of the warp. Since the Emperor's soul survived, there was a possibility that his whole essence could be reborn once more.
In the same way the Shamans died together to reincarnate as the Emperor, the Emperor's death too could herald a new saviour. That time would lie far in the future, when mankind's desire for a new saviour would strengthen the core of the Emperor's soul and rekindle it to new life.
The soul of the Emperor adrift in the warp is the Star Child. The humans that were left in charge of the Imperium had no real understanding of what had happened to the Emperor. Though the Emperor's body continued to live within the Golden Throne and his mind continued to be a beacon for humanity, his soul is a god waiting to be born.


The Sensei-Emperor
There is a another possibility given for the Emperor's resurrection/rebirth. A hidden group that call themselves the Illuminati have learned from the Eldar's Black Library many truths of Chaos, as well as about the Sensei and the Fall of the Eldar. They realize the Emperor cannot survive in his current state forever, and eventually he will fail, and without the Emperor, Mankind will fall to Chaos like the Eldar. Such an event would create a fifth God of Chaos and create another Eye of Terror, one which would span the entire Imperium. They seek to prevent this by bringing about the rebirth of the Emperor.
This involves gathering together the Sensei, protecting them from the Inquisition, preparing them for what they claim is "the final war with Chaos." In truth they ultimately plan to sacrifice the Sensei to the Emperor, in the same way so many psykers have been consumed by the Emperor. The Emperor will be renewed, reborn as the Sensei-Emperor to again lead his race in person.

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Re: The Terminus Decree: Are you ready to kill The Emperor?

Post by brother captain sean on Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:37 pm

I agree that the terminus decree deals with turning off the golden throne and releasing the emperor's spirit to be reborn. I believe that there would have to be a battle between the grey nights and the custodes ( my two favorite forces). I believe that the grey knight would try to make the custodes listen treason,but then force their way into the throne room. The custodes are above a space marine, but I think in some ways Avery night is also above a space marine. Even though the beacon of the astronomican would go out it would not be the first time that the worlds of the imperium would be separated from each other. Before the emperor they were all separated by warp storms. Also the shining light of the emperor would return and guide the forces of the imperium through the warp once again.

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Re: The Terminus Decree: Are you ready to kill The Emperor?

Post by Brother Blutcher on Wed May 04, 2011 2:50 pm

A ftightening, though very exciting hypothese!!!
And we all know there are no happy ends in the grim future....

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Re: The Terminus Decree: Are you ready to kill The Emperor?

Post by Constantine on Wed May 04, 2011 9:47 pm

I think that the Space Wolves would be called on to kill the Emperor.
In prospero burns they make it VERY clear that the SW's role is that of executioner, and that they perform the deeds that others would find distasteful and would refuse to perform.

That being said... Other races navigate the warp successfully, why couldn't we learn from them? I mean if a GK can weild a Daemon weapon, why can't others use Xenos tech to navigate the warp when faced with a tragedy like the death of the emperor?

Also I just wanted to put this out there................................................
Doesn't this whole "kill the Emperor/Terminus Decreee" thing stink of Tzeentch?! We know how the plans of Tzeentch are too complex for mortals to comprehend (first GK novel for example).

So...........Wouldn't it be the ultimate achievement for the Chaos God to mastermind the murder of the Emperor, and the collapse of humanity by his son's own hands? Shocked

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Re: The Terminus Decree: Are you ready to kill The Emperor?

Post by brother captain sean on Thu May 05, 2011 5:59 am

First I think the space wolves are the executioners for their peers, such as other space marines. I don't think that they are up for taking out the emperor and going against the custode. I think the fact that the GK geneseed has a portion of the emperor within it I think makes the GK a step above regular marines. Secondly I would think that the current state of the emperor would fit in with the plans of the chaos gods, because he is unable to do anything to stop them from corrupting humanity. However, if the emperor dies and the golden throne fails the emperor is reborn in all his power and glory. When this happens he will then lay a smack down on the chaos gods giving payback for the last 10000 years.

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Re: The Terminus Decree: Are you ready to kill The Emperor?

Post by Aubec le noir on Thu May 05, 2011 7:30 am

IF it happens as stated !! ... that's a big "if"
btw the executionners of the Emperor were the Night Lords, the ones that made the wet work, not the SW
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Re: The Terminus Decree: Are you ready to kill The Emperor?

Post by Constantine on Thu May 05, 2011 6:32 pm

Aubec le noir wrote:btw the executionners of the Emperor were the Night Lords, the ones that made the wet work, not the SW
Aubec pirat

The BL would disagre with this brother.
The SW are the executioners, as stated repeatedly in Prospero Burns, and the Night Lords are the fear mongerors, as stated in Soul Hunter

BCSean wrote:

#1.First I think the space wolves are the executioners for their peers, such as other space marines. I don't think that they are up for taking out the emperor and going against the custode. I think the fact that the GK geneseed has a portion of the emperor within it I think makes the GK a step above regular marines.

#2.Secondly I would think that the current state of the emperor would fit in with the plans of the chaos gods, because he is unable to do anything to stop them from corrupting humanity. However, if the emperor dies and the golden throne fails the emperor is reborn in all his power and glory. When this happens he will then lay a smack down on the chaos gods giving payback for the last 10000 years.

#1. A LOT of BL novels have custodes being overpowered or killed by "regular" marines these days, I think you give them to much credit.....Besides, the "assasination" would not neccessarily come in the form of a planetary assault. 1 SW entering the throne room could take care of the job just fine. AND if you factor in the possibility that the Emperor is in on the whole deal, he could probably even assist somehow.

#2. The Emperor is still holding the empire together brother! We would loose warp travel without him........ = disaster
The emperor is still fighting chaos even in his withered state. The mechanizations of chaos brought the emperor to this state, and it is naive to believe that they have not thought beyond this moment in time. Do not underestimate them.

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Re: The Terminus Decree: Are you ready to kill The Emperor?

Post by Macharius on Fri May 06, 2011 4:53 am

Where does it state in the codex that the Terminus Decree that it involes killing the Master of Mankind? It doesn't! So Lets not speculate on something that isnt actually writen! You all have theories but no one will ever be right!

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Re: The Terminus Decree: Are you ready to kill The Emperor?

Post by fa11en on Fri May 06, 2011 5:28 am

It doesn't, but there is some cross implication particularly with the fluff of Justicar Thawn.

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Re: The Terminus Decree: Are you ready to kill The Emperor?

Post by Macharius on Fri May 06, 2011 5:31 am

Really the only thing that links the Terminus Decree and the Emperor is the seal. If that is the only link it isnt enough to go off to go as far as the Heresy of killing our Lord and Master of man-kind.

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Re: The Terminus Decree: Are you ready to kill The Emperor?

Post by Macharius on Fri May 06, 2011 5:34 am

And if the emperor was dead who would be strong enough to take on the role as the Becon of Light for Man-kind? Also would we not then enter a war which Abbaddon could then gain a foot hold on Holy Terra and take over! With out the Emperor, Abbaddon has won!

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Re: The Terminus Decree: Are you ready to kill The Emperor?

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