Daemon Hunters Army in Escalation

Greetings,

I wanted to see if I could get your opinions on this list that I have been working up to for my Daemon Hunters army. When I started back into this hobby four years ago I participated in a escalation league and I felt that it really helped me with my playing skills as it helped me to learn to do more with less- a common theme with any DH army. While I will not have the free time to participate in an escalation league again for some time due to school, I can get small points pick up games and gradually work my way to higher points games again.

Primary Goals for playing smaller pts. games/ escalation format:
1.) Learn to be a better player on a smaller scale again, as this will translate to doing better with larger armies later on.
2.) Paint my army over time, instead of rushing to get everything done in one go.
3.) Learn how to not rely heavily on Land Raiders. Only one person has complained to me about my use of LR's (DH army...), but I still feel pretty bad when I crush someone because they cannot crack AV 14. However, the issue with Land Raiders go further beyond that issue. When LR's are a central part of the army they will either do amazingly well, or I'll loose by turn 4. I want to see if I can't construct a more balanced list.

The 500 point list:
Head Quarters-
Brother Captain with a Psycannon
Troops-
Grey Knight Squad- 8x PAGK: 1 Justicar with Melta Bombs & 2x PsyCannon GKs
Inquisitorial Storm Troopers- 5x ISTs with two Melta guns
Transport- Rhino with Extra armor & Smoke launchers

Rationale for the list:
I figured that with a list like this I'll be able to bring to bear a good amount of fire power with three psycannons (9 str 6 ap 4 shots a turn!). Not to mention the plethora of storm bolters and the two melta guns that are safely tucked away in the Rhino. This list is a bit of a divergence from my usual 1850 list, as I only take incincerators (all the better to pop out of a Raider with) and never any Psycannons. I figured that I could stand and shoot the GK's gun at any enemy, and rush up the Rhino to take out enemy armor with the melta guns. Or I could use the Rhino to give the GK's additional cover and gradually move up the table.

I will be sure to post up battle reports that I make with this list here (or at least a link from the Battle Report section of the forums). After a few weeks I hope to be heading towards 750pts, and I'll be sure to post up my progress on here as well.

As always thank you for your time,

-Cease

I like the list that you have in your post. I would be interested to know how it runs. The GW store by me is running a 40k escalation league starting at 500 pts. This is killing me since i run a pure grey knight army. My 500 pt list is ok i have tow of them.
1st list
BC
2- 5 man PAGK
single Dreadnaught with TLLC and incinerator

2nd list
BC
2- 5 man PAGK ( justicars have psycannon bolts)
single dreadnaught with assualt cannon

I hope that my 750 list runs a little better. I have several lists that i'm toying with all with their benifits and drawbacks.

1st list
BC and 2 terminator retinue
3- 5 man PAGK
Dreadnaught with TLLC and incinerator

2nd list
BC
3 terminator retinue
3- 6 man PAGK with the justicars having melta bombs and frag grenades

im hoping the termies give my some heavy hitting force and that the melta bombs in all three squads is enough to take care of any armoured vehicles that people might be running. I'm also toying with the idea of a grand master or captain stern. good luck with your list brother

I actually like both Brother Cease and Brother's Sean set of lists; in particular how Sean managed to fit in a splendid Dreadnought at that points Very cool.

They both have the same weakness; they are very fragile. Keep your forces together and be sure to use the best of cover, not letting yourself get routed. Those IST's with the melta are gonna be a very nice ace in the hole for you Cease. Your both very familiar however with this, as you play Grey knights after all

I look forward to hearing how your games go! I have the utmost faith in the both of you.

Well I have to say my 500 pt list could have played a little better. I played the list that has the dread with an assault cannon. So far I tied against a space marine list and lost against orks. However, the problem against the orks was not the list it was how poorly i rolled throughout the game. I could manage to roll a save for any of my troops. My dread got immobilized by a deathroller. Also I could not manage to do a single thing to the battle wagon when I assaulted it with my brother captain and a 5 man PAGK squad. I think the list would have run better if the emperor had been with my dice. I'm going to try the other 500 pt list laterthis week and next week starts the 750 list. Until then the emperor protects.

I got to play a small 500 point game a few weeks ago, which has influenced my decisions for further interaction with the first leg of the escalation league. Upon getting to the store I was informed of the escalation league rules that were to be implemented next Monday. Tragically models with a 2+ save and models with more than three wounds are not allowed next week- so I will have to switch up my list for next week. Plus as per the escalation league rules at 500 points no tanks with a armor value above 33 were allowed. Furthermore, we do not need to use the compulsory two troops (we can opt for just one), and do not need to use a headquarters slot on the force organization chart (FoC).
Many interesting changes may be made up for next week....time shall tell I suppose....hm....

I was good enough to get in a game however against JamesI from the Bolter and Chainsword forum and his dreaded Blood Angels army.

My list was the following:
Headquarters-
Brother Captain with a Psycannon
Troops-
8x Power Armored Grey Knights (PAGK) 2x with PsyCannons
5x Imperial Storm Troopers (IST) 2x with Meltaguns
1x Rhino with extra armor and smoke launchers

My basic strategy was to use the Rhino and the storm troopers to run “interference” as the rest of the army acted as a gun line. I figured at these lower points the PsyCannon shots have a reasonable chance to taking down the enemy from afar. I figured that I would use the Rhino to cover my gun line from enemy shooting from afar and just generally just create some trouble for the enemy.

His list was the following:
Headquarters-
Librarian with Blood Lance and Unleash Rage & jump pack
Troops-
7x Assault Squad with bolt pistols and chainswords with two melta guns, and a Sergeant with a Thunderhammer & bolt pistol with jump packs
Heavy Support-
Devastator Squad with 1 meat sheild marine (no heavy weapon), 2x missile launchers, and a lascannon, and a sergeant with a bolter and chainsword.

Game set up:
We played a standard annihilation game and the game board had a few building located along the flanks, with a small building in the center of the board. This created a small amount of cover from the devastators, but not a lot unless I hunkered down in one of the ruined buildings. The terrain set up gave me the idea of creating a bottle neck from his assault marines so I could potentially get a extra round of shooting at them.
We rolled for turn and I got the first turn and the ability to deploy first (I'm liking the way that this going thus far!).

Turn One-
Grey Knights: After seeing how he set up his army I decided that the PAGK were out of position, and moved the GK's towards the right flank a little bit in hopes of a better firing position as I assumed that my GK's were out of range for the most part. The Rhino stayed put for the most part, and the Brother Captain shot with his PsyCannon at the BA felling a single marine (the only model in range).
Blood Angels: The Blood Angels moved forward as I had assumed that they would (no where else to go but forward). The Devastators opened up on the Rhino tank- scoring two penetrating hits. Of which two cover saves were quickly made (huzzah).



Turn Two-
Grey Knights: I moved the Grey Knights a little bit around the back field, trying to back pedal a little bit before his assault squad would be able to charge me (18' charge range is a scary thing mind you). I managed to put a wound on the librarian and kill 3x of the assault squad including one with a meltagun. There were only 3x BA assault marines left, and the single librarian that were a threat to me with their assault abilities.

Blood Angels: The BA shooting stunned the Rhino three times in a row....three times....I gotta love the old school smoke launchers at times (penetrating hits goes down to glancing hits).

Turn Three-
Grey Knights: The GK's dug in their heels in the ground and shot everything that they had at the remaining BA's killing three of them- leaving only 3 assault marines (things are starting to look more encouraging at this point). I moved the Rhino up the center of board 12 inches to try to keep the tank harder to hit. The IST's jumped out of the tank as well as to help to shoot at the exposed assault squad.



Blood Angels: The assault squad split up with the librarian moving towards the ISTs, and the remaining three assault marines with the melta gun ran towards my BC who was now all on his own (I figured that if the squad assaulted on group- I could get the charge bonus on the other group). The Rhino got stunned three times during his shooting phase (thank you extra armor investment). The librarian killed two of the IST's in close combat, and the three assault marines were ripped to shreds by the BC (most groovy). The TH assault marine stood their looking awkwardly at the BC- as he missed his attacks.
Kill Points- 1 KP for BA/ 0 KP for GK



Turn Four-
Grey Knights: Tragically I lost another IST, and they stayed in combat with the librarian. The BC creatively disassembled the TH wielding assault marine as the rest of the PAGK looked on.

Blood Angels: The devastator marines moved into abetter firing position, as the librarian finished off the IST squad. The librarian attempted to get himself out of firing range with the consolidation move.
2 KP for BA/ 1 KP for GK

Turn Five-
Grey Knights: The entire army got into a better position and shot apart the librarian.
2 KP for BA/ 2 KP for GK

Blood Angels: The devastator marines shot up the PAGK squad, killing 3x PAGK (this was a huge wake up call for me- as I was pretty much ignoring the devastator squad for the entire game.

Turn Six-
Grey Knights: The GK's fired everything at the devastator marines- killing a single missile launcher marine, as a single PAGK was killed by a missile launcher.

Blood Angels: The devastators, not to be outdone by the PAGK- killed a single PAGK.

We rolled to see if the game would continue, and we rolled that it ended (a tie), so we decided to give it one more turn to break the dreaded tie.
Turn Seven-
Grey Knights:The Grey Knights moved more into the open and shot at the devastator squad- killing all but one marine (the fabled meat shield marine). However, we are still tied at 2 Kill Points each.

Blood Angels:The meat shield marine shoots at the PAGK- and actually kills a single PAGK...






After thoughts-
Well unfortunately I have to switch up my list due to the escalation league rules. I am considering using a Chimera over a Rhino, and using a inquisitor with some nifty ranged options (multi-melta & plasma cannon) over a BC. While I understand that I got very lucky this game, I think that my strategy worked out pretty well in this game- and I would really like to see how it will work out in the future. While the PsyCannons were pretty effective in this game, I understand that their usefulness will drop down as I go up in points (as more and more armored targets make their way into the game/ tougher troops).

-Ceasarian

I was able to play another game after that one a couple of weeks ago against Space Wolves at 500pts, instead of the BC I had to use a inquisitor and some henchman so I could fit in with the escalation league rules (woops lol). But unfortunatly I had to cut down on the PAGK squad to get the chimera for them. Unfortunatly the game ended poorly for me, with only the justicar remaining, while there half a squad of space wolves still running around.
Some basic things I've learned at the 500pt level:
-Chimera's- Don't take them....70pts base for BS of 3- just not worth it. Given that you have only two fire points, the extra pts. cost, and that you'll need to mass em' if your going to be able to do anything productive. Now if they could transport GK's and didn't miss everytime- it would be a different story.
-PAGK squads have to be more than 5 models strong- otherwise they'll be wiped out way to quickly/ will lack the punch they need to do anything productive.
-Inquisitors with retinues can make a nuisance of themselves with the plasma cannon and two servitors.
-Rhinos' in smaller pt. games can be used to push an enemy to where you want them to go, and most opponents will not have anti-tank.
-Move the PAGK forward then back, shooting the enemy as they attempt to get in range. The fact that the PsyCannons can shoot reasonably well on the move helps greatly (their firepower in low pts. game can be silly at times).
-Grey Knights cannot really stand in one space for more than a single turn it seems, they always need to be moving, or reacting.

Following the game I spoke with some of the club members concerning my desicion to repaint my army/ stray away from Land Raiders (despite the fact that I may or may not own two in the shrink wrap boxes....ugh...I may have a problem). I was trying to figure out the best course of action to take with the GK's atm (what to paint next) when I somehow managed to buy a Storm Raven, and a Furioso dread a week early. I'll be starting on both tonight (as well as a warmarchine commision), and I'll be sure to include those in my upcoming army. For the Dread I'm converting it so it'll be a melta or lascannon Dread & the SR will be- well a SR. I hope to be able to make more BR's with these new units soon enough.

Thank you all for your comments again, and I hope to have more posted up soon enough.

-Cease

From my own experience in an Escalation with the same restrictions, Inquisitors set up for a shooty load out and nothing else but ISTs with Plasma in Rhinos rocked pretty much everything. Not to mention that having an Eversor there as well normally did it.

If your gonna stick to Grey Knights though with those restrictions, your best bet really is to load up on two troops and take as many psycannons as you can. Two seven man squads with psycannons will bring you nicely up to 500 points. As annoying as it may seem, but it'll get the job done. The same goes for an Inquisitor as well with lots of ISTs in Rhinos. I find it kinda hard to get something really going at this level for Daemonhunters, especially with those restrictions in play. Just be glad that you don't have the 50 point cap on Wargear per unit like the one I played in.

I wouldn't worry too much about having real anti-tank weapons, the rate of fire from those Psycannons will see AV12 (Chimera/Devilfish) taken care of. That AV33 rule keeps it down to skimmers and dedicated transports as the only vehicles used.

Even in a 1000 Point game where i took pretty much nothing but PAGK, a BC with GKT retinue and an Inquisitor, everyone that could, took a psycannon. Nothing but Psycannons wrecked Tau (Had to do a bit of work with taking out Hammerheads, but it's very much doable) and it was ridiculous.

I will argue that sitting the GK down in one spot and not moving them is doable, but your looking at if whether or not your in a good position to attack from. First game that day, my opponent left me a 3/4 tier ruin where I virtually sat my entire army (Kill Points, Spearhead deployment), it forced him to get closer due to shrouding. It may seem a bit of a waste to not be assaulting something like Tau, but if your looking at a deployment style that will just see you wasted before you reach them, why not force them to adapt to you?

Why can't a Chimera carry Grey Knights? I mean, I wouldn't use one in a 500pt battle- it can't hit a thing , costs too much and a heavy bolter can penetrate it's side armour. But theres nothing to say you can't set up the IST somewhere else and embark on the first turn except the old 3rd edition rules for dedicated transports. In addition, it can carry terminators seeing as it lacks the text on the rhino entry saying that it can't; I'd agree with that logically looking at how the entire rear of the vehicle opens up.

I guess if you follow the rules exactly, including the out of date ones, it would be impossible. Is it the same deal for Dark Angels and Black Templars then?

Sai wrote:Why can't a Chimera carry Grey Knights?

cause it's written in our out-of-date codex
but hey ... you have to wait less than 35 days until the change !
Aubec

lets just hope the release is in the early april.. not in the end of april.. god that waiting time kills me

oh yes i know that feeling ... i lost 3 kilos !!
(i've got plenty of them though ... probably still too much ! )
Aubec

I'm hoping that we get some "official" leaks regarding the new codex before April. There are a lot of rumors out there like a two wound terminator in the elite slot and regular terminators in the troop slot. Both of these sound great. Then there are others like the str 6 weapons going down to str 4 sucks. However, I would be ok with that if the other rumor that the entire army TAGK & PAGK all have force weapons ( which means power weapons). Here's waiting for April and an early birthday present to myself with pre-orders. I already have purchased a storm raven and will be able to use it in the 4th round of our escalation league in April.

Aubec le noir wrote:

Sai wrote:Why can't a Chimera carry Grey Knights?

cause it's written in our out-of-date codex
but hey ... you have to wait less than 35 days until the change !
Aubec

I do have a habit of ignoring the silly rules that are clearly out of date. As long as I point it out to an opponent they've always been OK with it. They even let me use a rending assault cannon. On the other hand, if it's a competitive game following the letter of the law makes sense.

The argument against even having power weapons army-wide is that ignoring armour saves has sod all to do with daemon-slaying. It would mean that a scout's combat blade has the same chances of killing a bloodletter as a nemesis force weapon. Unless they're changed the background so that we hunt counts-as Space Wolf and Blood Angel armies it doesn't really fit the background. On the other hand, there might be some rule that disallows daemonic saves, so it's hard to say without the full picture.

When i run an Inquisitor unit its usually an Inq with power armor and a Psycannon, a mystic and 1 Plasma cannon servitor in a Chimera. In higher point games ill add another mystic and 2 HB servitors. For the heck of it i have even run the Inq in term armor with psycannon and daemonhammer. That was pretty much wasted points as the Inq unit never sees HTH combat.

Wow, AWESOME reports Brother Cease! So glad to hear you got a game with James! The pictures were very nice too

Overall, I really have nothing to add that the others havent already said. I don't want to risk going too far off topic; all I have to say is best of luck to both of you, and I can't wait for more updates!

Ach, I know I said I wouldn't go off topic, but of my 3 LR's (2 Godhammer, one FW Redeemer) I have had to sell a Godhammer to a good friends Raven Guard to help in funding for those new GK's in April...<_< So it looks that I'll be following in "more GK's, less LR's"