Grey Knights beginings?

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Grey Knights beginings?

Post by Constantine on Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:44 am

Listen to this Brothers, it is a pretty cool story clip.
http://www.blacklibrary.com/Horus-Heresy/Garro-Oath-of-Moment.html

But more importantly....Do any of you find any merrit in the thoughts that Garro could be the first Grey Knight?
No Chapter markings......Plain grey armour.....kicking Daemon ass.....fighting to achieve a higher purpose.....scratch

Not to mention the fact that he states that he is a legion of one...........This statement fits well with the elite nature of GKs, perhapse this is foreshadowing for the new codex Razz

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Re: Grey Knights beginings?

Post by Zealadin on Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:20 am

I love all the feedback from people who give it 5/5 but haven't even read it or seen it yet....
The Garro thing has been brought up before, its certainly possible....

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Re: Grey Knights beginings?

Post by Aubec le noir on Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:05 am

i saw that too
Garro and Loken ... the firsts GKs (with few others) is imho indeed right on the fluff and right on what we knew about the hypothetic origins of GKs... what misses is the genetic pool of GKs... as i see it, the first GKs used the emperor genes to reinforce them and to create of brother fellows...
well that's my 2 cents anyway !! Razz Razz
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Re: Grey Knights beginings?

Post by Constantine on Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:00 am

Aubec le noir (Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:05 am) wrote:i saw that too
Garro and Loken ... the firsts GKs (with few others) is imho indeed right on the fluff and right on what we knew about the hypothetic origins of GKs... what misses is the genetic pool of GKs... as i see it, the first GKs used the emperor genes to reinforce them and to create of brother fellows...
well that's my 2 cents anyway !! Razz Razz
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The origins of the GK could still be from the Emperor. Garro is potentially the first, but his is just (I am using that term loosly) a space marine. There could still be the potential for the GKs to have geneseed from the Emperor or Arbrites.....

@ Zealadin:

I agree that does seem a little generous! Razz

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Re: Grey Knights beginings?

Post by DonFer on Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:22 am

I reckon garro recieves some Empereo's genes to be the First GK. This is great since we all saw some shadow of that coming in Flight of the Eisenstein... hopefully we get more fluff on the new Dex! Very Happy

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Re: Grey Knights beginings?

Post by Aubec le noir on Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:11 am

May the all mighty Emperor of Humanity listen to your prayer brother DonFer ! Laughing
i can imagine myself reading this future codex ! study affraid affraid
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Re: Grey Knights beginings?

Post by Dark Bjoern on Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:51 am

Not to forget the secret symbol Garro got from Malcador the Sigillant: a big ][.

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Re: Grey Knights beginings?

Post by Rivan on Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:42 pm

Just finished listening to Garro: Oath of Moment and it wasn't bad. There definitely are several indicators that would point to a possible GK origin, specially the stylized
][ symbol on his armor.

-- SPOLIER ALERT SPOILER ALERT --











Garro was gathering a group of Astartes that all had one thing in common: they are all psykers. The weird thing was, he was gathering them regardless of legion, loyalist or traitor. That kinda didn't make sense scratch

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Re: Grey Knights beginings?

Post by Dark Bjoern on Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:32 pm

Rivan wrote:Just finished listening to Garro: Oath of Moment and it wasn't bad. There definitely are several indicators that would point to a possible GK origin, specially the stylized
][ symbol on his armor.

-- SPOLIER ALERT SPOILER ALERT --











Garro was gathering a group of Astartes that all had one thing in common: they are all psykers. The weird thing was, he was gathering them regardless of legion, loyalist or traitor. That kinda didn't make sense scratch
It makes sense. He gathered Astartes who are like him: loyal to the cause of the Emperor and nothing else. See the one from the Ultras. Heīs a psyker and without requesting it he followed the Interdict of Nikaea and became a simple battle brother cause itīs the Emperorīs will. He had no doubt about the Emperorīs motivation, heīs fierce loyal. And Garro, Loken, Saul Travis and the loyal Marines on Istvaan III are good examples that not all of the traitor legions had become traitors. Thatīs the kind of Astartes Garro wants to recruite.

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Re: Grey Knights beginings?

Post by Sai on Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:49 am

And Garro, Loken, Saul Travis and the loyal Marines on Istvaan III are good examples that not all of the traitor legions had become traitors. Thatīs the kind of Astartes Garro wants to recruite.

That works because they would have been tempted but turned away, making them stronger than those who have never been tempted.
The Exorcist Chapter do the same sort of thing with daemon possession in their initiation. Once a marine has been possessed and expelled the daemon, he's much less likely to succumb in the future, which allows the chapter to act like a less powerful codex version of the Grey Knights.

'To know the light you must see the dark.'

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Re: Grey Knights beginings?

Post by DonFer on Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:22 am

I didn't know that about the Exorsit Chapter, very interesting indeed.

We are sending some Inquisitors to monitor their work.... Razz

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Re: Grey Knights beginings?

Post by Aubec le noir on Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:25 am

DonFer wrote:I didn't know that about the Exorsit Chapter, very interesting indeed.

We are sending some Inquisitors to monitor their work.... Razz

The Exorcist Chapter was indeed created by an Inquisition High Concil.
How do they get the progenoid glands is a mystery (and from wich chapter ?), but they created it to make "under-GK", easier to create, easier to control ??
the process is simple but very dangerous : take a SM and let him struggle against a daemonic possession (the deamon is supposed to be monitored and weakened by inquisitors of the ordo Malleus). if he survives he nearly coudn't be possessed anymore, his will has strengthened a lot and he's recognised as a fellow by lesser deamons that don't attack him (I know it's weird ! Twisted Evil )
When the GK knew that experience, they decide to put an entire GK "company" to monitor them and exterminate them if necessary. So far So good they didn't have to. and in the first action of the Exorcists the killing ratio was 97 deamons for 1 marine (not bad isn't it !? Twisted Evil )
their symbol : a golden(?) deamon horned head skull on red armour (see the archivist sign ? ... same thing)
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Re: Grey Knights beginings?

Post by DonFer on Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:36 am

Wow! where was all that fluff? I really have to start reading again.

Thanks for the elightment Brother Aubec! Very Happy

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Re: Grey Knights beginings?

Post by Aubec le noir on Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:42 am

you can find this on the lexicanum for instance
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Re: Grey Knights beginings?

Post by Xethik on Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:59 pm

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Exorcists

Rumors have it they come from Grey Knight geneseeds, but it is a mystery as Aubec le noir said.

They were involved in the Third Armageddon War and Badab War, so you might find fluff on them in a book on one of those.

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Re: Grey Knights beginings?

Post by Sai on Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:35 pm

'On the basis that their souls are uncorruptible and pure, they are effectively invisible to most warp daemons as their souls do not register for the leak of the mortal corruption. Only extremely powerful daemons are able to spot them.'

This is very close to the background for the Sensei and Illuminati. The Illuminati are hard to detect because they have likewise been possessed at some point in their history, and this makes them resistant and 'enlightened' to the true nature of Chaos. They're fated to fight chaos until they are destroyed, but a perk is they get to visit the Black Library which is otherwise very much a Harlequin VIP establishment.

The Sensei on the other hand are descendents of The Emperor and psychic blanks, whilst still being able to use the warp when called upon to do so. They're area of calm in warpspace rather than being those scary folks with the pariah gene.

On the other hand, maybe the pariah gene does originate from The Emperor.
But it's also quite probable that the C'Tan created the pariah gene to control chaos.
Which means the C'Tan might have created The Emperor as a weapon against Chaos, and he doesn't even know it.

Grim, dark and full of conspiracy. The young think that in the 41st millenium there is only war. They are very much mistaken.


Additionally, Cypher fits almost all of the characteristics for being a Grey Sensei. The superhuman abilities, the constant battling against repression. On the other hand, he doesn't show any particular psychic powers and as far as we know registers a presense in the warp like a regular mortal.
But he's making his way to The Golden Throne, and for The Emperor to be reborn his body must die completely.

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Re: Grey Knights beginings?

Post by Sai on Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:36 pm

Sai wrote:'On the basis that their souls are uncorruptible and pure, they are effectively invisible to most warp daemons as their souls do not register for the leak of the mortal corruption. Only extremely powerful daemons are able to spot them.'

This is very close to the background for the Sensei and Illuminati. The Illuminati are hard to detect because they have likewise been possessed at some point in their history, and this makes them resistant and 'enlightened' to the true nature of Chaos. They're fated to fight chaos until they are destroyed, but a perk is they get to visit the Black Library which is otherwise very much a Harlequin VIP establishment.

The Sensei on the other hand are descendents of The Emperor and psychic blanks, whilst still being able to use the warp when called upon to do so. They're area of calm in warpspace rather than being those scary folks with the pariah gene.

On the other hand, maybe the pariah gene does originate from The Emperor.
But it's also quite probable that the C'Tan created the pariah gene to control chaos.
Which means the C'Tan might have created The Emperor as a weapon against Chaos, and he doesn't even know it.

Grim, dark and full of conspiracy. The young think that in the 41st millenium there is only war. They are very much mistaken.


Additionally, Cypher fits almost all of the characteristics for being a Grey Sensei. The superhuman abilities, the constant battling against repression. On the other hand, he doesn't show any particular psychic powers and as far as we know registers a presense in the warp like a regular mortal.
But he's making his way to The Golden Throne, and for The Emperor to be reborn his body must die completely.



Jeese, I'm a geek...

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Re: Grey Knights beginings?

Post by DonFer on Fri Dec 24, 2010 4:59 am

That sounded much like a moment of "enlightment", together with convulsions, weird voice from the grave and white eyes.... hehehe Wink

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Re: Grey Knights beginings?

Post by Constantine on Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:30 am

Sai wrote:
Sai wrote:'On the basis that their souls are uncorruptible and pure, they are effectively invisible to most warp daemons as their souls do not register for the leak of the mortal corruption. Only extremely powerful daemons are able to spot them.'

This is very close to the background for the Sensei and Illuminati. The Illuminati are hard to detect because they have likewise been possessed at some point in their history, and this makes them resistant and 'enlightened' to the true nature of Chaos. They're fated to fight chaos until they are destroyed, but a perk is they get to visit the Black Library which is otherwise very much a Harlequin VIP establishment.

The Sensei on the other hand are descendents of The Emperor and psychic blanks, whilst still being able to use the warp when called upon to do so. They're area of calm in warpspace rather than being those scary folks with the pariah gene.

On the other hand, maybe the pariah gene does originate from The Emperor.
But it's also quite probable that the C'Tan created the pariah gene to control chaos.
Which means the C'Tan might have created The Emperor as a weapon against Chaos, and he doesn't even know it.

Grim, dark and full of conspiracy. The young think that in the 41st millenium there is only war. They are very much mistaken.


Additionally, Cypher fits almost all of the characteristics for being a Grey Sensei. The superhuman abilities, the constant battling against repression. On the other hand, he doesn't show any particular psychic powers and as far as we know registers a presense in the warp like a regular mortal.
But he's making his way to The Golden Throne, and for The Emperor to be reborn his body must die completely.



Jeese, I'm a geek...

LOL!!! Yes you are Razz
But don't worry, you are in good company.
There sure is a lot to take in surrounding the star child, sensei, and illuminati though isn't there........

From reading the Black Library's Dark Angel novels I don't recal anything that suggested that Cypher does not have a warp presence... He was in the company of two powerful Psychers for the duration of Fallen Angels and nothing was mentioned about such an anomoly.

Don't you think it is fittingly ironic/frustrating that in order for humanity to survive it must let the Emperor die, because that is the one thing that the majority of the Imperium will sell their lives trying to prevent Rolling Eyes Razz GW is great at creating these awesome conflictual mind boggling fluff posibilities scratch

As for the reason I started this thread, I still think that Garro is the first GK. I think that it is not unplausable to predict that he will at some point be privy to some secreat or training that enlightens him to his calling and unlocks his psychic ability. It is also very possible that he and his new followers could undergo some genetic manipulation/enhancement and evolve into what we now loveingly refer to as Grey Knights.

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Re: Grey Knights beginings?

Post by Sai on Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:47 am

I was reading Slaves to Darkness the other day and it talks about how Grey Knights exclude all but the most powerful psykers as a normal Librarian would have his soul snapped and his intestines used as nooses for the rest of his company. Hence the Grey Knights didn't have many psykers (,much like the Exorcists now). Actually, everything was a lot more codex back then, including the command structure. Also, they were founded after the third founding and psycannons are 'elegant handguns,' so maybe the old lore has been rewritten ever so slightly...

Anyway: maybe the chapter evolves to have more psykers after Garro's time? I haven't listened to Oath of The Moment, but if they don't have the Inquisitorial Black Ships rounding up psykers to feed the Golden Throne it would take a long time to find Psykers of the right strength to fill out the numbers. The legion guys he is rocking around with might be strong enough, but your average aspirant probably isn't. So maybe at the conception of the Grey Knights they did a lot of recruiting of normal folk with massive (1980's Saturday morning cartoon style) self-belief and will-power.


I think the worst thing is that while they keep The Emperor alive his mind is fragmenting and becoming vulnerable to Chaos. They are literally killing their own god. I actually found that quite shocking when I read Inquisitor book at at tender age of 10. It probably explains how I became so cynical in real life.

One of the Inquisitorial sects is preparing for/pushing along his death, but pretty much everyone hates them. Maybe they sabotaged the Golden Throne and that's why it's failing?

Did any of you read the story about building mega-gargants in Adeptus Titanicus? There's a part of that where it switches to the point of view of Gork and Mork, and the Emperor tries to persuade them not to launch an attack on Imperial space. I think that was the first time I found out that the Emperor is quite literally a god.

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Re: Grey Knights beginings?

Post by Corennus on Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:14 am

While there is little doubt Garro is one of the first to be inducted into an Inquisition style organisation (Flight of the Eisenstein), I doubt he is the founding member of the Ordo Malleus.
For a start, the main inquisition was set up AFTER the end of the Horus Heresy, with Malleus and Xenos being the two branches.
Plus all Grey Knights' geneseed comes from an unknown source (rumoured to be the Emperor's itself). Garro has the geneseed of Mortarion, and this would preclude that he has no psycic ability beyond his own natural talents. The grey knights however are ALL psykers and the geneseed enhances that capability radically.


Any takers for the idea that the Grey Knights' geneseed is a mix of emperor and magnus?

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Re: Grey Knights beginings?

Post by Zealadin on Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:44 am

Interesting concept, its possible the GK's may have been a mix of the Emperor's and maybe the Thousand Son's in the brief period when they where protected from the predations of the warp by Magnus's deal with the devil (so to speak).
If that protection was somehow captured genetically it might explain why Grey Knights are immune to Chaos AND why they are all Psykers.

Its also possible the Emperor tried to fix the Thousand Sons, and perhaps succeeded but in a new generation? The GK's. I guess it would follow that they where part of Magnus's geneseed if this was true.

I haven't read all the heresy books yet though!

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