2000 pt fun list (is it competitive?)

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2000 pt fun list (is it competitive?)

Post by Rivan on Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:22 pm

I drafted a fun list (at least in my opinion Razz ) similar to Brother Madbakery's and wanted to get your feedback whether it would be competitive in a 2000 pt GT.

HQ - Stern
Ret: 4 GKT (1 'cinnie)
HQ - IL w/ artificer armor, pw, p.pistol
Ret: 2 warriors (2 meltas), 2 sages, 2 mystics
Chimera w/ ea & smokes
EL - Vinidicare assassin
TR - 8 x PAGK (1 'cinnie)
TR - 7 x PAGK (2 p-cannons)
TR - 5 x IST (2 meltas); chimera w/ ea, smokes and sl
TR - 5 x IST (2 meltas); rhino w/ ea, smokes and sl
HS - LR w/ ea, smokes & sl
HS - LR w/ ea, smokes & sl

4 scoring units, 4 twllc, 6 meltas, 14 KP

The only reason I'd take search lights is because if I do use this for my upcoming tourney, night fighting rules are in effect for one entire round/mission. What do you guys think?

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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 2000 pt fun list (is it competitive?)

Post by MJSwasey on Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:16 pm

As long as you know that, search lights are a good option. I like the list a bunch! like i said to madbakery, he and you have a solid core and alot of cool and fun options. good job. I envy the mobility you'll have, and with the variety of weapons added it will definitely be fun!

I do have a few questions.

Why the HQ inquisitor? it seems for what that guy is kitted out with he would do about the same as an elite slot and save a bunch of points.

Why does the retinue have meltas instead of multimeltas? Since the mystic free shot allows the weapon to count as stationary, theres only a small 6" window where the meltas are more effective (move twelve get out melta 6 as opposed to melta 12), and this often means the'll die to return fire instead of staying safe inside. Is the extra 6" worth the downside?

I assume the last rhino is due to points, and most often the cinne gk and GKT get LR duty?

I think it pretty much looks about as good and flexible as a GK army can be. You've pretty much doubled my normal killpoints at this points level, so that game may be harder, but you've made objective games a bit easier. We have a ton of GK only battle reports, i can't wait to hear how this goes for you!

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Re: 2000 pt fun list (is it competitive?)

Post by Rivan on Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:42 pm

The IL is because two of the missions have add'l battle points for a specific HQ-related objective (like getting an HQ w/in 6" of table center for example). So I figured 2 HQ's will give me more flexibility if one goes down.

My intent is to use the 2 fire points of the chimera and just shoot out w/ the meltas. They will not disembark until forced to. If I'm not mistaken, the mystics would still work from within the chimera.

Yes, the last rhino is due to points (plus, I already have a rhino built Razz )

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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 2000 pt fun list (is it competitive?)

Post by MJSwasey on Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:52 pm

Aha - i see. My local club often does the opposite, counting HQ units as extra kill points or giving the enemy bonus points for killing hq's, so i was understandably wary.

My point with the retinue was that the giving the inquistors retinue multimeltas might be more expensive, but would be pretty much only beneficial if you stayed in the vehicle. And the mystics work just fine, my point about them was that again, multimeltas work better with mystics since the free mystic shot lets you shoot heavy weapons.

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Re: 2000 pt fun list (is it competitive?)

Post by Kyrox on Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:06 pm

Brother MJ has a good point. Giving the warriors multimeltas will give you a longer range. And once you get within range for the multimeltas, youre chimera will be able to shoot both its HB and ML, assuming you don't move anymore of course. And having the 2 ISTs rushing in rhinos, they should draw most of the anit-tank fire.

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Re: 2000 pt fun list (is it competitive?)

Post by Rivan on Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:49 pm

Ok, tweaked it a little and I think it came out better Very Happy

HQ - Stern
Retinue: 4 GKT (1 'cinnie)
HQ - Brother Captain w/ sacred incense
EL - Inquisitor w/ bolt pistol, ccw & emperor's tarot
Retinue: 2 warriors (2 m-meltas), 2 sages, 2 mystics)
Chimera w/ ea, smokes & sl
EL - Vindicare assassin
TR - 7 x PAGK (1 'cinnie)
TR - 6 x PAGK (2 p-cannons)
TR - 5 x IST (2 meltas); chimera w/ ea, smokes & sl
TR - 5 x IST (2 meltas); rhinos w/ ea, smokes & sl
HS - LR w/ ea, smokes & sl
HS - LR w/ ea, smokes & sl

_________________
"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 2000 pt fun list (is it competitive?)

Post by MJSwasey on Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:15 pm

I LOVE seeing people take the Tarot - IMO it's the best underused piece of wargear we have. good choice

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Re: 2000 pt fun list (is it competitive?)

Post by Rivan on Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:24 pm

MJSwasey wrote:I LOVE seeing people take the Tarot - IMO it's the best underused piece of wargear we have. good choice

I want to try it out -- I was calculating the probabilities and it does help to have increased chances to get the choice of whether to go first or second.

I really think I can have fun with this list and the varying units gives me a lot of tactical flexibility. I'll be play testing it for now and see how comfortable I get with it Very Happy

_________________
"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 2000 pt fun list (is it competitive?)

Post by madbakery on Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:58 am

Hi Brother Rivan,
I LOVE your list!!! possibly because it's so close to mine Razz

So I've played 3 games so far with my list and won all of them Very Happy . This may possibly be because they where all objective based, and as you will find four mobile scoring units ROCKS!

Some advice seeing as our lists are so similar: keep your assassin as close to the edge of his range as possible, that way your opponent needs double 6's to even hit you. I have had success in the latter game when my IST hop out of there transport at the start and let the PAGK get in and roll up super quick to the enemy objectives! and last never ever NEVER deepstrike your GKT (i got ballsy and lost both of my squads in the 2nd turn Embarassed )

Hope that helps, and once agan LOVE the list.

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Re: 2000 pt fun list (is it competitive?)

Post by Rivan on Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:33 am

Thanks Brother MB.

Just a thought...our codex does specifically say dedicated transports can only be used by the unit it was bought for. So unfortunately, our PAGKs can't hop in an IST squad's transport.

Our codex (unfortunately) overrides the BRB w/ regards to the new dedicated transport rule Sad

_________________
"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 2000 pt fun list (is it competitive?)

Post by NemesisForce on Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:41 am

Looks cool. Just wondering if it would be better to give your IL Hammerhand instead of a pw. Sure, it's cool to be able to ignore armor saves but against T4 you'll only be wounding on a 5+. I'd rather have the possible 5 2+ wound rolls with saves allowed. I totally disagree with the multi meltas. You move, they don't shoot. I think you'll find they'll do a whole lot of nothing if you plan to keep in the transport.

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Re: 2000 pt fun list (is it competitive?)

Post by Rivan on Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:14 am

On the Inquisitor, I opted to give him bare minimum (ccw & bp) since I really would avoid close-combat for his unit at all costs. If it comes to the point that they are forced into it, he's not going to survive anyway.

On the multi-meltas, definitely a couple of pros and cons to consider...
At the start of the game, before any movements, the multi-meltas definitely give me more range than meltas. On the first turn, in theory, my plan is to move once (if necessary) and get into an optimum firing position and probably pop smoke that turn (again, if necessary). From then on, I stay stationary and try to bring all heavy weapons to bear in addition to the chimera's weapons. Hopefully, 2 LR's and 2 other light tanks (w/ meltas in them) zooming around will attract the opponent's fire. That being said, I'm actually considering swapping out one of the m-meltas for a plasma cannon -- more range, more anti-horde as well as anti-termies (specially if they're deepstriking Very Happy )
Addionally, the longer range actually compliments the mystics' precog abilities since average roll on a 4d6 will fall around 12-14".
Downside, if I have to move at any time for whatever reason, the heavy weapons are not going to be doing much as you mentioned.

I'll probably get a better feel for how it will actually perform after a few play test games.

_________________
"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 2000 pt fun list (is it competitive?)

Post by Aubec le noir on Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:32 am

THAT is a DH army... i'm curious to know what it will do on battle ... scratch
my bet that it will be very underestimated (just as you and your skills Wink ) the first rounds and then you'll have maybe harder times with your opponents that won't make that sort of mistakes.
i can't do this list cause i don't possess enough multimelta gunservants painted... Crying or Very sad
1 question : why the vindicare instead of the callidus ??
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Re: 2000 pt fun list (is it competitive?)

Post by Rivan on Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:00 am

Very good question Brother Aubec. It was hard trying to decide which assassin (callidus, eversor & vindicare) to use since I like all 3 of them. But the 3 reasons that made me choose the vindicare are:
1. The fact that I'm already on the high side as far as KP are concerned (14), I opted for the vinidicare because it is the least likely to give up a KP. With all my other units moving around and probably attracting majority of attention, the vindicare should be able to fire at leisure (hopefully). The callidus and the eversor have no choice but to close in w/ the enemy and while they can probably knock out a unit or two, they will almost assuredly die as well.
2. My intent is for the assassin to fill a support role that hopefully will increase the effectiveness/survivality of my other units by knocking out key targets and targets of opportunity (IG officer, pf sergeant, farseer, etc).
3. Lastly, I'm itching to use my heavily converted female vindicare and show her off Razz Razz

_________________
"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 2000 pt fun list (is it competitive?)

Post by Rivan on Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:45 am

Play tested this list last night vs my son's CSM army and didn't do so well. I know I shoudn't really base the viability of the list with one game but I identified potential weaknesses that gives me mixed feelings about this list:
1) vindicare - while its fun to play a vindicare and timely kills can really be effective, the opposite can REALLY be devastating. For last night's game, the vindicare missed w/ two special bullets and basically did nothing the whole game. While bad dice rolling is always a possibility, you can definitely feel the weight of missed shots (or missed wound rolls) when the vindicare only has 5-7 shots in the game. Fun to play but not reliable enough in a GT.
2) gun servitors - I know I outlined the pros and cons but in an actual game, I felt the cons outweighed the pros. For one, if my opponent does not have any DS units at all, the cool "free, stationary" shooting is null and void. And the 50-60 pts on the servitors is either wasted when I need to move the transport, or totally limits the transports movements. Either way, I felt it really restricted my options.

I'm trying to find a happy medium b/w this list and previous "GK" heavy lists I used to play and will have to tweak it some more. I DO like the inquisitor + mystics combo since it is a really good defense vs. the one unavoidable assault type a LR heavy list has problems defending against: drop podding dreads or sternguard w/ combi-meltas Very Happy

_________________
"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 2000 pt fun list (is it competitive?)

Post by Rivan on Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:15 am

Apologize for the double-post but here is a list that is the "offspring" of the fun list I was trying to make and my mechanized list (that has been very successful so far). Appreciate you guys bearing with me while I go through the evolutions of my list and as always, feedbacks and comments welcome Very Happy

HQ - GM w/ m-c nfw, p-cannon, icon, incense, hood & hammerhand
HQ - Stern
EL - Inquisitor w/ bp & ccw
2 mystics
LR w/ ea, smokes & sl
TR - 7 x PAGK (1 'cinnie); frags
TR - 7 x PAGK (2 p-cannons); frags, targeter & auspex
TR - 5 x IST (2 meltas)
Chimera w/ ea, smokes & sl
TR - 5 x IST (2 meltas)
Chimera w/ ea, smokes & sl
HS - LR w/ ea, smokes & sl
HS - LR w/ ea, smokes & sl

- GM joins p-cannon squad and can deploy either on the table or embarked depending on opponent & mission; this squad becomes like a mini-purgation squad w/ 3 p-cannons Very Happy
- Stern joins 'cinnie squad
- everyone has a ride and can be mounted
- giving the inquisitor a LR gives me another heavy tank w/ 2 twllc even if the mystics don't have any deep strikers to detect (and makes for a harder KP to earn compared to a chimera Razz )
- 4 scoring units; 6 twllc; 4 meltas; 13 KP

I will miss benefiting from the retinue rule but I think having both my HQ's independent beefs up my PAGK squads.

_________________
"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 2000 pt fun list (is it competitive?)

Post by madbakery on Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:08 pm

Really love how your list is evolving, it seems to be getting more competitive with each evolution!

Just a question though, how are you giving your PAGK's frags? or are you just giving them to the justicar, and if so wont that mean only he gets the benifit from them and not the rest of the squad?

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Re: 2000 pt fun list (is it competitive?)

Post by MJSwasey on Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:21 pm

Frags do only go on the justicar, and only he gets to go at initiative

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Re: 2000 pt fun list (is it competitive?)

Post by Rivan on Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:23 pm

Yeah it's just the justicar. At least he gets to attack at initiative with his nfw. If he also attacked at I1 and the squad suffers enough wounds, he might not get the chance to strike back at all.

In any case, I try to avoid assaulting into or through terrain Very Happy

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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 2000 pt fun list (is it competitive?)

Post by Zealadin on Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:34 pm

Try the Callidus its the most reliable of the assassins and Word in Your Ear and Polymorphine are both really cool!

The gun servitors are a bit limiting sadly, going with a mech force I'd be inclined to go 3 Veteran Guardsmen with either Meltas or Plasma Guns, that way you are sure to either pop a heavy vehicle OR do some damage against lighter vehicles and medium to heavy infantry.
In fact Plasma guns I think are one of the most underrated weapons this edition, melta is too prominent for most vehicles over AV12 so we see alot of AV11/12 and even 10, perfect for plasma guns.
With this loadout you could even give the Inq a Incinerator instead of Psy and have him there for close combat encounters vs hordes. (and dark eldar)

Otherwise I'd go a Inq with Psy, Gun Serv with Plasma, and a Sage or two (reroll to hit) and run in a Chimera but use it as a stationary bunker that can always shoot lots of weapons. Problem is its still damn expensive!

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