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Black Talons 2000 pt list

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Post by Rivan Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:50 pm

Tentatively named my new SM chapter Black Talons (thanks Brother NF). Their gene-seed comes from Corax (Ravenguard) but background fluff is still TBD. They share the same combat philosophy though and make extensive use of assault squads and drop pod assaults.

HQ - Shrike equivalent HQ
TR - 10 man squad w/ rhino (1 LC, 1 P. gun)
TR - 10 man squad w/ rhino (1 LC, 1 P. gun)
EL - Iron clad dread w/ drop pod
EL - Iron clad dread w/ drop pod
EL - 5 Sternguard vets w/ drop pod (all have combi-plasmas)
FA - 5 Vanguard vets w/ jump packs (all have power weapons)
FA - 10 man assault squad (2 p. pistols; sergeant has lightning claws)
HS - 5 man devastator squad (3 h. bolters, 1 p. cannon)
HS - Predator w/ twllc & 2 lc sponsons

I'm going true to fluff and use lightning fast-type offense. As you can see, I stayed away from using termies or any LR's Very Happy
The idea is to use the drop pod assault rules and have both iron clads arrive in the 1st turn and hopefully cause as much mayhem amidst the enemy lines (and if I'm lucky, maybe knock out any heavy armor there may be). This should hopefully give enough time for my assault squads to get there and be the #2 punch (they have up to a 24" assault reach after all: 12" move, d6" Fleet, 6" assault).
The HQ will be attached to the V. veterans and will be my hardest hitting unit. On the charge, that's 5 rending lightning claw attacks at I5 followed by 20 power weapon attacks at I4.
The predator and d. squad will hang back and provide support fire.
The tac squads will split into c. squads w/ the lascannon squad hanging back as well. The plasma gun squad will be in the rhinos to secure objectives if need be.
The sternguard vets will arrive when they arrive and will either be appointed to take out a termie squad or to just wipe out whatever squad is guarding an enemy objective. Very few units can survive 10 plasma shots at close range Very Happy

Thoughts and/or suggestions?

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Post by NemesisForce Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:41 pm

Looks good and I love the theme. My only concern is your lack of long-range anti-tank.
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Post by Rivan Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:01 pm

Yeah, I'm hoping 5 lascannons (1 twl) will be enough. I'm also hoping the 2 dreads will get lucky and knock out any heavy armor at close range.
Definitely not a "vs. all-comers" list but should be a lot fun to play. Should also be fast and furious Razz
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Post by Zealadin Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:33 pm

You should consider using the Blood Angels codex for that list.

You lose fleet, but you could replicate it pretty well, and you would gain fast rhino chasis vehicles, DoA, ASM troops, Vang Vets with Heroic Intervention, Furioso dreads could possibly fill the Ironclad role, and Baal Preds.

Then you can also add Sang Priests or Honour Guard both for FNP/FC bubbles, and in the Honour Guards case as a very specialised unit that can stock up on PlasmaG/MeltaG's or even combat orientated stuff!

You can also still call it your own chapter name, and just create your own fluff Razz
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Post by Rivan Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:20 am

The BA are probably the best in assault but one of the main reasons I decided to do Ravenguard theme is because of the really awesome FW stuff they made for them Very Happy
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Post by Aubec le noir Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:03 am

what are the weapons of the iron clads ??
It will change ??
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Post by Rivan Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:19 am

I just got them standard wargear...siege drill w/ melta gun and whatever the other arm is.
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Post by Zealadin Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:29 am

You could still use Raven Guard models etc Razz Especially the Forgeworld stuff!

I think you will see where I am coming from shortly on this line of thought.
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Post by Rivan Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:30 pm

Zealadin wrote:You could still use Raven Guard models etc Razz Especially the Forgeworld stuff!

I think you will see where I am coming from shortly on this line of thought.

Razz I totally hear you Brother. I never quite got into the BA's fluff though. Their unit rules are awesome and you're right, their vehicles are just plain bad-ass. Of course, if ever I played a BA army, I would never use their special characters Razz
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Post by bigbri Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:03 am

I quite like the list, I'm a big fan of RG style marines(fleeting marines is just wrong lol) The main problem is vehicles. Any kind of mild mech list is going to eat you. You have 5 LC shots a turn, but 3 of them come from the pred and can only hit one target. You also lack melta which is almost mandatory in 5th these days. Against certain lists and missions it should be absolutely great though. getting those two dreads down early is going to cause problems and vanguards and assault marines bounding across the map should distract your opponent. Make sure you let us know how it plays though.

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Post by Zealadin Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:55 am

The only character I really like for BA's is actually Mephiston because I like playing lists without vehicles and he fills the slot of a Land Raider very nicely. And quite literally too :p

Dante is also quite cool for a fluffy list however, as he allows sanguinary guard to become troop! I know some people dislike his rule about knocking down an opponent's ICs stats, and personally I would have prefered him to be cheaper, but he's the only way to play a Sang Guard army Sad
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Post by NemesisForce Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:34 am

My bad on the 'lack of long-range a/t' comment. Because it was Raven Guard I was reading 'LC' inyour tac squads as lightning claws.
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Post by Rivan Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:07 am

@NF: Bigbri has a good point though...3 of the 5 lascannons can only fire at 1 target at a time (would that I had my GK LR's Razz ). Oh well, like I said, the list is not as well-rounded as I'd like it to be but sticking to the fluff aspect is going to be a lot of fun.

Besides, my MAIN motivation for this army is my planned project for my HQ, my version of Captain Shrike...I'll use the FW model of Korvydae as the base model but I'll give him the limited ed Sicarius lightning claws and probably the GW model Shrike's head (or one of FW's ravenguard helmets). Pics below for illustration.
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Post by Constantine Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:18 am

That is going to be a SWEET conversion!
I still don't know why GW insists that the majority of character models don't wear helmets scratch I am glad to hear that you will be keeping Shrike helmeted.
When are you going to build this army? Don't you also have a Space Wolves army tucked away somewhere as well? Razz

BC
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Post by Aubec le noir Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:28 am

i'm very impatient to see the conversion !! bounce
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Post by Rivan Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:46 am

Constantine wrote:That is going to be a SWEET conversion!
I still don't know why GW insists that the majority of character models don't wear helmets scratch I am glad to hear that you will be keeping Shrike helmeted.
When are you going to build this army? Don't you also have a Space Wolves army tucked away somewhere as well? Razz

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Yeah, I have enough for a 1500 pt SW army but they're all still shrink wrapped! Razz

After I finish my 2000 pt NMM GK tourney list, I'll be taking a break from GK/DH. I'll be working on my Black Talons first, then Tau, then SW.
Of course, all this might get de-railed if the new GK's suddenly get released Razz
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Post by NemesisForce Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:32 pm

And here's hopin' for a swift de-railment. Smile I kinda like the fact that special characters have no helmets. Makes them stand out more.
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Post by Rivan Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:37 pm

NF: I normally don't have a preference for helmets or bare heads. Its just that Korvydae's head kinda reminds me of the main vampire villain from the original Salem's Lot (w/ David Soul) Razz I think you and I (and possibly a few more here) will be the only ones who remember that movie lol!
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Post by NemesisForce Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:33 pm

Yes, I remember it and David 'Hutch' Soul. In fact I read the book when it first came out 4 years even before the mini-series. Anyone seen my cane? And yes, he does remind me of the villian.
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Post by Rivan Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:22 pm

Developed a second list and I'd appreciate feedback on which list you think would be more viable. Both lists stick to the fluff and combat philosphy of fast assaults. I think the second list has more sustaining power even though it has less models per se.

HQ - Shrike equivalent
HQ - SM Captain in termie armor w/ lightning claws
TR - 10 man tactical squad (1 lascannon, 1 plasma gun; rhino)
TR - 10 man tactical squad (1 lascannon, 1 plasma gun; rhino)
EL - Iron clad dread in drop pod
EL - 5 assault termies w/ lightning claws
LRR w/ m-melta & extra armor
FA - 5 vanguard vets (sarge has lightning claws; all have power weapons)
HS - 5 man devastator squad (4 heavy bolters)
HS - Predator w/ twllc & lascannon sponsons

-Termie HQ will be attached to assault termies
-Shrike HQ will be attached to vanguard vets
-Iron clad will drop in 1st turn to distract and attract fire
-Both Shrike/vets and LRR will rush forward and use fleet to cover up to 24" (26" for the assault termies if you consider the extra 2" from the LRR hatch). Shrike's unit will probably need less since they can infiltrate and will probably be closer anyway.

Thoughts and suggestions?
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Post by Zealadin Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:38 am

I would go with missiles intead of HB's on Devs
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Post by NemesisForce Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:42 am

I agree with Zeal though plasma cannons would be my choice if your going with pure anti-infantry weapons. Or maybe 2 hb's and 2 pc's.
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Post by Rivan Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:49 am

Thanks for the suggestions! How do you guys think this compares with the first list though?
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Post by Zealadin Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:01 am

I'm not a fan of Tac's which is probably why BA is my ideal SM chapter Razz
But it looks interesting however and I would like to hear how it plays.
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