So... any ideas about who we really are?

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Re: So... any ideas about who we really are?

Post by The Legionnaire on Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:49 am

Well noticed, but at this point in the story line of the Horus Heresy the Imperium knows nothing of Daemons. The Daemons were spawned on Istavaan III, and even so no Imperial force could get to Istavaan.

So as you must appricate they didn't know about the Daemons yet. Smile

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Re: So... any ideas about who we really are?

Post by Spartan on Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:20 am

Well noticed, but at this point in the story line of the Horus Heresy the Imperium knows nothing of Daemons. The Daemons were spawned on Istavaan III, and even so no Imperial force could get to Istavaan.

So as you must appricate they didn't know about the Daemons yet.

If they did not know about Daemons, which I agree with why would they use Garro to make Daemonhunters??????

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Re: So... any ideas about who we really are?

Post by Guest on Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:26 am

Daemon Hunters is the name of the Codex, our target is Chaos.

The imperium needed people of unquestioning loyalty and ability to take on this insidious enemy - people who had proved themselves beyond doubt.

The Emperor did know about Daemons as did certain Primarchs, what they didn't appreciate was the threat that these creatures posed.

GK were formed to battle Chaos in all its forms not just the daemon.

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Re: So... any ideas about who we really are?

Post by SIRSEAN on Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:03 pm

Imnothere, you have an strong point...

when we send our demands to GW, we must say that we were created to destroy chaos, not just demons!

go for the chaoshunters codex!

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Re: So... any ideas about who we really are?

Post by Klomster on Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:07 pm

But i think garro ended up as an inquisitor.

For the ordo malleus perhaps, i think they were the first one.

And during the second founding the emperor like.

-Aha, let's take one part custode, one part space marine and one part me and put into a jar and blend!!!!

*Does what he said*

-Oh by me, it's an awesome deamonspanking space marine who is really powerful!!!

-Me likes! Let's make more!!!

And such the chamber militant of the ordo malleus was born!

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Re: So... any ideas about who we really are?

Post by The Legionnaire on Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:50 am

Ahh Daemon Spanking, A truely fruitful hobby Razz

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Re: So... any ideas about who we really are?

Post by Guest on Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:21 am

"And Blend..."

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Re: So... any ideas about who we really are?

Post by Brother_Marine on Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:37 pm

hahahaha deamon spanking, nice one andy.

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Re: So... any ideas about who we really are?

Post by Klomster on Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:58 am

But i was first With the spanking!

*Tears fill my eyes*

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Re: So... any ideas about who we really are?

Post by Spartan on Sat Mar 15, 2008 3:04 pm

Ok can we agree that the Codex Daemonhunters is fact.

Right ok now that is out the way this is what it says:

"the Grey Knights were unique in that their gene-seed was said by some to have come from the Emperor's own flesh"

There you have it from the codex.

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Re: So... any ideas about who we really are?

Post by Brother_Marine on Sat Mar 15, 2008 3:58 pm

True, straight from the source no arguing with that.

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Said By Some? Lol

Post by The Legionnaire on Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:42 pm

the Grey Knights were unique in that their gene-seed was said by some to have come from the Emperor's own flesh


Said By Some? Lol

My freind, That is just a way of getting people to collect Daemonhunters. It gets people that have never played the game thinking; Wow an army made from the Emporer of Mankind. Its a ploy. Besides, that isn't even conclusive evidence, "Said By Some" Some could be any-one it could just be from a random Hobo from the Slums of Terra, It could be some random school child. It could be a recruit from the Imperial Army. That is no evidence; "Some" isn't specific enough to make it evidence.

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Re: So... any ideas about who we really are?

Post by Klomster on Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:52 pm

Well the "some" people you mentioned wouldn't even know grey knights exist, and if you ever see one, you are in alot of trouble!

The "some" could be inquisitors and ordo scribes or something.


But yeah, Some people saying isn't proof. But mutch better than beeing a traitor!

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Re: So... any ideas about who we really are?

Post by Spartan on Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:38 am

But sureley it is greater proof than the speculation that Grey Knights are from Garro, I am not sayng that I disagree just going on pure evidence.

Actually both are speculation hmmmmm. htink Garro et all were founders of Inquistion, Ordo Malleus etc but still think GK's closer to the Emperor than most a his DNA used and he could always have given himself a gene seed, hell all Space Marines are human first maybe Emperor was the first ever to have surgery in that way.

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Re: So... any ideas about who we really are?

Post by Klomster on Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:06 pm

That would explain why he was more powerful than the primarchs, i wouldn't create (is it 20) a bunch of demigods if i wouldn't be able to bash them if i had to!

And gene seed should be possible to extract without progenoid glands inserted, as the only thing the progenoid glands do is to gather gene seed from the space marines body.

It could be Custodes gene seed (If they have that, or wait, i just explained that you might not even need progenoid glands to get gene seed)

Progenoid glands are there for easy removal, i think the apothecaries had to be a bit more numerous if you had to do a 3 hour surgery every time a marine dies to get his gene seed.

Instead, you can just slam the narthesium/reductor into the marines back and whop!!! Progenoid glands with gene seed! In less than a minute!

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Re: So... any ideas about who we really are?

Post by belissand on Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:39 pm

GW will make us discuss wether we como from Garro, the emperor or Sigmar itself, they will never give us more info because that would propably means deceiving somo players (sorry man, your warriors are not direct geneseed from the big cheeze)
I think If they ever give more info it will be either on novels (like Garro) or on a new dex, until then we stay only on hypotetic grounds.

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Re: So... any ideas about who we really are?

Post by Klomster on Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:50 am

Yes, the origin of the grey knights should be forever lost.

But that lost thing should be the emperor's own geneseed. Razz

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Re: So... any ideas about who we really are?

Post by belissand on Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:36 am

I second that!

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Re: So... any ideas about who we really are?

Post by Justicar Dionitas on Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:28 pm

For starters, The emperor has no gene-seed. The Emperor created the gene-seed. He used his own DNA to create the primarchs (And the custodes)

Legion of Light, In the quote you put from Wikipedia, you highlighted the part that states It is Thought that they were the original founders of the Grey Knights. The word "thought" is just as baseless as "Said by some" When Malcador the Sigilite said "We need people of an inquistive nature..." Think about that. Inquisitive. Grey Knights do not ask questions. They destroy daemons. Inquisitors ask questions. The only question a GK may ask is "Where are they?"

As far as the gene-seed is concerned. One thing people are forgetting is that Garro's gene-seed is actually that of Mortarion's as Qruze is that of Horus'. Do you honestly think after all the of that, the imperium would want to use the gene-seed of traitor primarchs. They're paranoid enoughas it is. I can see Garro, Qruze, Keeler and the Sister of Silence starting the different ordos of the =]I[= but not the Grey Knights.

Better that it remain a mystery

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Re: So... any ideas about who we really are?

Post by Klomster on Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:05 am

I also thinks the Eisenstein dudes start the inquisitions more specified orders.

And that the emperor is awesome enough to create geneseed from himself and put it in grey knights.

And of course, no one knows anything about any of this.

Becouse it's a secret!

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Re: So... any ideas about who we really are?

Post by The Legionnaire on Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:05 am

Yes, I do have to agree with the recent arguments put forwards. Yes it is better that we do not know for sure the origins of the Grey Knights. But we can still have a bash at figuring it out.

Also, I've read over this thread afew times, and those that have been making very good points and arguments that seem well educated on the background of the Grey Knights shall be put forward to be Archivsts.

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Re: So... any ideas about who we really are?

Post by Spartan on Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:58 am

I know this is a long post but please read it all before commenting, but I have put a quick summary of my thoughts in the second to last paragraph

Ok let’s think logically:

Firstley a new Chapter is decided to be founded.

Secondly the geneseed is chosen

We do not know when the GKs were founded but I would guess the Emperor founded them when he first learned of chaos as I do not know for sure when that was the latest I can assume he knew of Chaos is when Garro returns, he may have known about it before that date but if not he sure did after, but seeing as he was back at Terra doing secret stuff while Horus went around doing the dirty work he could have discovered Chaos then but his first experience of the Warp and therefore Chaos is the scattering of the Primarchs and he is a psyker and no way they wouldn't have been drawn to him as a moth to a flame therefore he would have been well aquinted with the perils of the warp. Also the whole warp travel/warp storm thing and the need for a Geller field. So it could be argued he knew of Chaos way before Garro and therefore started building GKs before the whole heresy.

So we can say is that the Emperor was around and alive (not in the Golden Throne) and therefore would have ordered the founding himself. Again while at Terra when Horus was leading the crusade he could have been doing this.

So what we have so far is either the GKs were made before Garros arrival and therefore he and his friends could not have created GKs or shortly after and they could be used.

Most likely I feel was that the Emperor was working on this in part while Horus was dealing with the crusade and therefore Garro had nothing to do with founding of the Grey Knights but just to make sure we have smashed the idea that Garro founded the GKs the line about them being needed for their inquisitive natures is too obvious a reference not to be taken seriously that they founded the inquisition. Any other word could have been used but inquisitive was used sorry but that in my book that is very solid but not fact. Also what can discredit that it was before Garro and the others is the fact there is no mention of the Grey Knights at the siege of Terra, obvious reason is they were not ready yet.

So now what do we have the Emperor decided to create a the new chapter at or before Garro’s arrival at Terra as it is with in this period he would have discovered the Warp Chaos and all its Daemons. But most likely decided after Garro’s arrival due to the Grey Knights not being reported in the Siege of Terra and it would make sense that that the inquisition and Ordo Malleus and GK set up at the same time.


Now on to Geneseed.

Now before I continue I must go onto about the original geneseed for a bit. What we need to decide is the DNA used in the original Primarchs the same for each of them and was it their experiences as children on the planets they crashed that moulded them in personality and characteristic or was the DNA used slightly different for each and this would have led them to have different characteristics from the start. Also were the created from scratch or were they born by a women and then altered like a Space Marine, if so did they have different mothers or the same.

I think the assumed thinking is that they were created from scratch from various strands of the Emperors DNA giving them their own individuality. What ever the method we can assume that each primarch even if their were no outside influences and all were treated the same would have been different, why because if they were not the Emperor would not have used their DNA as the basis for each chapter but just used his own, what would be the point in using theirs if he could get the same result using his own.

So we now know that each primarchs DNA was different, whether it is by having a different bit of Emperor DNA each and they were created from scratch or that their own DNA blended with whatever the Emperor gave them each be it different or same for each.


Anyway what we have is an Emperor with his original DNA and 20 new DNAs whether this is by mixing with human or splicing his own up. Now he used the 20 new DNAs to create the founding legions. Now this is where the whole timing thing is critical, as I believe the Grey Knights formed close to Garro’s return due to them not being mentioned ever before that date but after that date Emperor new of the dangers of Chaos to his marines he would have realised that the 20 new DNAs had a flaw whther it be in the make up of the DNA or in the fact that they gave the Marines a father figure other than himself. With this in mind and wanting to create a Chapter that would not falter he would not use any of 20 new primarch DNAs. This leaves him with the original DNA he used to either blend with Primarchs or which he split up and gave a little bit of each to the Primarchs. So the emperor with has given the Grey Knights DNA that is either not split or that has not been blended with anything else before entering a human, it is therefore in both cases the DNA from the Emperor unspoilt and unchanged.

To summarise, GKs were founded around Garro arrival to Terra. Garro and others could have been used to create Inquisition and the Ordos and even train the first Grey Knights, but their DNA/Geneseed not used to create the GKs. The DNA used was created from the Emperor directly. I think he created the Primarchs from scratch using his parts of his DNA as he did not want to clone himself. For the Grey Knights I think he used his DNA as a whole rather than parts but this was place into humans which of course created a lesser quality due to the human part than the primarchs but a greater quality than a Space Marine who has a section of the emperor plus the human part.

Although this is all speculation and we do not have enough FACT to go on everything we know about the GKs is based on guess work all be it educated guesses. It could be that they were created in any number of ways including they are a lost primarchs chapter or the high lords made them and created some cocktail geneseed from all geneseeds or Garro and the others had their geneseeds used in a cocktail or they use whatever geneseed they can get their hands on, or that they are just space marines and it is only their training and equipment which makes them stand out from other Space Marines and so on, ultimately it is up to you to believe in what you want but I have tried to look at the most logical steps.

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Re: So... any ideas about who we really are?

Post by Justicar Dionitas on Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:19 pm

Interesteing points there Spartan. I think the emperors DNA part could get a little confusing as he also created the custodes from his own gene-stock.The custodes are supposedly the equivilent of about 10 space marines where the Grey Knights are the equivilent of probably 2.

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Re: So... any ideas about who we really are?

Post by Klomster on Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:39 pm

I'd say a grey knight should be 5, becouse they are more awesome than 2.

Anyway, you seem to have a good idea on how the emperor might have thought, but i would guess that mr E knew a bit about the perils of the warp, not much.

That's why he was reckless and didn't respect it becouse he didn't know all powers behind it.

But i'd guess that the emperor had this Abel geneseed, original stuff, very demanding of your body extracting this stuff if you're not equipped with progenoid glands, (basically, i would guess it's spinal cord fluid, and some other interesting stuff in this) so he couldn't make a whole lot of dudes with this stuff so he made 2 things.

1) Custodes, they don't seem that numerous so they would probably get Abel labelled geneseed.

2) Take custodes geneseed and make 20 primarchs. Maybe, i'm just speculating.
The initial custodes should have some slight varietes in their geneseed that was overcompensated some how when installed into a new, i'd say tube growed superhumans.

I'd guess that the Emperor took from qualities he found in the initial Custodes, one might have had great fighting prowess, so we combine that with this subject and see the results.

Oh, Angron..... Not what i expected, let's try again.

Ah, my calm, intelligent custode.

Mix mix mix, oh, a Sanguinious, (i think of sanguinious this way, correct me if wrong)

And so on, until he got 20 differing subjects, full of spinal stuff to create lots of marines.

"And they shall know no fear"

Ok, now we only have little custode timmy left.

Oh, we were attacked by Horus, Why? I dunno, but he aint happy and he is changed, and has deamons with him.......... not a good day. *Sigh*

BASH!!! Horus dead and emperor falls, and his calm intelligent son killed for no reason, both...... *Cry*

Then little timmy returns and tells Mr E that he killed 18 greater deamons more than his brethren end Mr E like.

-Yo, wazzup Timmy? Why'z you so good a slappin da' deamon ass!

-Well, um, i just told them how you were right and stuff and then suddently my head started to shine and stuff, really weird.

(Completely not serious sentence but Mr E finds out that one custode shows good deamon killing qualities)

Mr E see that deamons will probably be a litteral pain in the ass for the next...... very long time.

So Mr E like.

-WOW, I got awesome idea lads!!!! Let's make a new kind of marine.

With nice shiny armour and everybody was like YAY.

And the emperor made awesome silver armoured (initially black though) dudes to slap deamon ass.

And there was much rejoice, well, like 3 people knew abou this so they were probably happy....ish.

If you forget the fact that the whole imperium is all fucked up and that half the primarchs are dead or very lost.

Or wait, ALL primarchs dead or very lost.

Not serious, but try to find my smart ideas, i am just bored and try to comicify most stuff i write.

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Re: So... any ideas about who we really are?

Post by The Legionnaire on Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:04 am

Lol Klom.

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Re: So... any ideas about who we really are?

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