1750 Pt. List assistance

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Re: 1750 Pt. List assistance

Post by MJSwasey on Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:26 am

Thats really bad luck against the Tau. He can have 9 railguns MAX, and that is about half his army at 1750 I'm assuming you had second turn (also really bad luck against tau), so probably placed the LR where they'd get cover, so failing alot of saves is tough there. On average 9 railguns (with the +1 BS instead of the Slow and Purposeful upgrade) kill about 1 LR, And him getting through your smoke 2nd turn is also bad luck, at best he has about a 50/50 chance of destroying a smoked LR with all 9 railguns, and that gets cut in half if you have cover.

Hopefully you learned alot in these games. Defending objectives is a skill that only comes with losses to things like that bike rush, and learning how to carefully place guys to prevent it, but it also teaches you how to do it as well, by placing your LR's 15" away from an objective the turn before, and suprise rushing it.

Also, loosing is sometimes part of playing GK in tournaments, so I'm glad you had nice opponents to soften the blows.

For future tournaments I highly recommend the Inquisitor/Assassin combo. It's only 2 models to buy, you can use almost any model you like/that is cheap for them (i use WH Fantasy DE assasins), and they add ALOT of power. an assassin can single handedly take down a full squad of opponents heavy weapons, as the one will just pop up within 1" of the enemy, low ap flamer them and charge, ignoring all saves. The inquisitor can be used for psychic powers, to add a cool weapon to your GK group, or just as ablative wounds for you GK.

Next time we'll be expecting to hear a few wins and what worked well for you. until then, happy gaming!

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Re: 1750 Pt. List assistance

Post by Zealadin on Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:27 am

Yea this is part of why I got irritated with my GK army, you really want Land Raiders to be viable against certain lists, but many others have the perfect tools for taking them out.
Its too many eggs in one basket relying on rolls.

Against any army which takes lots of railguns or equivalent your just relying on too much luck with Land Raiders, they could die first shot (or like mine traditionally does, live through like 30) the problem is its not an ideal strategy because our army is too overpriced.

There is definately alot you can learn that will help you sheild your LR's though, but the Inq and assassin is a very cool and fluffy addition to your list and might open up a few different ideas that can work too (Inq with a retinue is sometimes interesting)

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Re: 1750 Pt. List assistance

Post by Driz1 on Sun Aug 22, 2010 8:27 am

Well what Im finding is because everything so expensive I just cant hold points for 6 turns because I just get swarmed by literally every army. 6 man PAGK squads dont appear to pack enough punch against armies that have 4-5 times my number. Ill jump out shoot assault a 20 man squad wipe half of it make them run then im standing in front of firing lines that run for decades and bye bye 6 man squad.

The second my retinue jumps out Ill explode some lesser races squad then its same thing they turn every gun in their army including AV and blow me away.

I know this is part of the plight of playing Pure GK, which is my choice and I accept my fate. Just seems that even a little bad rolling and your totally done in objective based missions.

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Re: 1750 Pt. List assistance

Post by MJSwasey on Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:13 pm

Well there are tricks to playing GK that do help even this. We are not really that underpowered on the wholel, we just do great at some mission (KP) and worse in others (objectives), and other armies are more balanced.

For GK, if you play a LR list buy that little 20 point inquistor and stick the tarot and artificer armor or an invuln save on him. You most likely get first turn, which means you get to smoke and almost NO army is cracking more than one smoked LR. Stick the inquistor with a squad and his 2 wounds eats up wounds for the squad (either regualr wounds or high ap ones, i wouldn't put both on him. This also combos nicely with the assasin.

try 7+ squads. I find 6 man squads die way to easily as well, unless they're far in the back (double psy squads i like at 6 man).

Only use terminators on something really important or multi assualts. They very best GK players line things up so each squad is usually assualting 2 squads (unless they are cc squads, in which case you reverse it and have two of yours assault 1 of theirs). This is also important for regular GK squads.

Deep striking isn't terrible. 170 points nets you two incinerators that have a pretty good chance of landing near something they can kill. They can come in anywhere you need it and usually get shot ALOT the next turn, opponents often waste good firepower just to be sure they die, taking firepower off the troops on the front lines.

If your LR is full it better be moving. Theres very little point to putting GK in a land raider and having it sit, they'd be better off firing from cover.

get termies out on the other side of the LR, attacking the flanks, so after they consolodate they have a chance to be blocked by the LR. and it's always possible to move a little slower and shoot more so that your entire army gets there the same time.

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Re: 1750 Pt. List assistance

Post by Zealadin on Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:01 am

Land Raiders are actually very important for something many GK players don't realise (not saying you don't) they are screening units.
Against Tau I always use my LRs to deliver my GK's, and when I need to assault I make sure my LR is blocking as much LoS to my assaulting unit as possible to ensure they can win the combat without being wiped out by return fire the next round.
Obviously its still tricky as a lucky shot takes out your LR, but being 14 all around means you can do tricks like this and with careful planning you can often garner a cover save for the LR.

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Re: 1750 Pt. List assistance

Post by Driz1 on Mon Aug 23, 2010 7:28 am

Yeah that was my plan was to to basically use my LR to block LoS to portions of his army and I wanted to initate melee assaults at 3 points along his "hug the boards rear end line"

The Dashes are his line and the the V's are here I planned to place my LRs the mid V being my HQ.

------------------------
|> V V
|
Problem is not a single LR made it anywhere close, the board was very open and I had to rush straight ahead. I didnt know all my vehicles had smoke as Im still very new and I\'ve gotten conflicting answers every game I\'ve played. Knowing now that Ill always have smoke in a similar situation I will move 12 smoke move 12 assault next time in my first 2 turns.

Thanks for the help and tips. Now I need to trim this list for a 1500 and then a 3k team tourney the next 2 months.

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Re: 1750 Pt. List assistance

Post by MJSwasey on Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:19 pm

you dont ALWAYS have smoke. You have to buy it. And you can only use it 1 turn per game. But it's SOO cheap and SOOO powerful you will never see any experienced GK take a LR without smoke and Extra armor.

but yeah the 12 smoke 12 assualt is a great move

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Re: 1750 Pt. List assistance

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