1750 Pt. List assistance

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1750 Pt. List assistance

Post by Driz1 on Tue Jul 27, 2010 7:31 pm

Hi,

Just this past weekend I played in a double tourney 2k point joint force chart and earned my first single game victory (was actually my first games in ages). Eager to further purge the chaos once more I have signed up for a 1750 single tourney.

As far as available models I am very limited. I have a Stern Model and the standard 5 pack of terminators. 22 PAGK's 3 incinerators. 2 Regular Land raiders and 1 crusader.

I only wish to play pure GK and dont intend to buy any other models from other armies.

I am figuring of going with a GM w/upgrades, 5 term retinue (1 TH/SS) all in my LRC. 2 7 man PAGK squads with incinerators, both in regular Land raiders.

Often the tourney director at the store has at least 1 battle that involves 5 objects or cap points. My current build leaves me with only 2 units capable of capping.

Is it logical for me to surrender the chance of victory via point capping in this style of game and just go for the tie or massacre, or should I rework my army with the models I have and try to shave points to get a 3rd PAGK squad on the field (for which I wouldnt have a vehicle).

Thank you for any assistance

Driz1
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Re: 1750 Pt. List assistance

Post by Rivan on Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:36 pm

For 1750, you can actually have this build:
HQ - GM + 5 GKT
TR - 6 X PAGK
TR - 6 X PAGK
TR - 6 X PAGK
HS - LR
HS - LR
HS - LRC

All the units are just base points, you'd still have around 95 pts for upgrades. Just my two cents...

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"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 1750 Pt. List assistance

Post by MJSwasey on Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:00 am

A) you don't need to have alot of troops to win objective missions. The most objective missions i've won, as tau AND GK, is by holding one objective and contesting theirs.

That said, more troops wouldn't hurt. A lucky tau or Guard player who gets first turn immobilised or better against your LRs will put you right out of the fight.

I am also not a big fan of GM's at sub 2000 points. they take up a LOT of points and are only worth it if they get into cc with some uber character that isn't a better initiative. 99% of the time i find stern to be better. s8 instakill still hurts alot.

I Highly Suggest dropping the money for at LEAST 2 and most likely 4+ psycannons. A 6 man squad with two psycannons holds any objective like a champ, with 3+ saves and shrouding, shoots a bunch of s6, and is a devil to assault. I always include at least one of these units to sit on my objectives.

I could give you suggestions, but your models are SO close to 1750 that you can't really drop anything, so your choices are basically what you have or rivans until you get more models.

When you do, i recommend

Stern+6termies
6GK (Two are flamers) frag nades
9GK frag nades
6GK (two are psycannons) targeter
LRC +EA+Smoke
LR+EA+smoke
Dread, multi melta CCW incinerator EA Smoke

or
Stern+6termies
8GK (One is flamer)
8GK (One is flamer)
5GK (two are psycannons) targeter
5GK (two are psycannons) targeter
LR +EA+Smoke
LR+EA+smoke
and some wargear

or even the deadly
BC with retinue, 3 termies
4 termies
4 termies
4 termies
8GK (one is psycannon)
8GK (one is psycannon)
8GK
8GK

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Re: 1750 Pt. List assistance

Post by elugin on Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:50 am

It is way more models than he has, and he does not want to buy more (if I'm correct).

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Re: 1750 Pt. List assistance

Post by Driz1 on Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:03 am

No I don't want to buy non gk stuff, but also can't afford much new stuff atm either. Typically the tourney involves multiple objectives like 4-5 in some of the missions

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Re: 1750 Pt. List assistance

Post by Aubec le noir on Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:33 am

the first army (rivan's) work well and you can make it with the models you have
test it and change some things to fit your way of playing
Aubec pirat


Last edited by Aubec le noir on Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:21 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: 1750 Pt. List assistance

Post by Nausaden on Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:33 pm

I like both suggestions; I personally only run Grandmasters. I feel that the Brother Captain is waaay too much of a joke, I mean, come on..He only gets 1 wound and is stomped in CC by other close combats in terms of attacks and what not. I roll my GM and retinue in a Crusader, and cut the heart of the enemy army out with him Very Happy

In my "humble" opinion, its always worth the GM's monster killing power, the enemy will likely put all their attention to him and not your actual army.

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Re: 1750 Pt. List assistance

Post by MJSwasey on Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:53 pm

Of course, the GM is exactly the same to a model with a powerfist and a few ablative wounds to spare - one hit and 5+ save or toast.

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Re: 1750 Pt. List assistance

Post by Driz1 on Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:08 pm

I take it I shouldnt be using justicars, for some reason I thought I had to... Or do I have too

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Re: 1750 Pt. List assistance

Post by Rivan on Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:37 pm

Justicars are required for any PAGK unit, whether Troops, Fast Attack of Heavy support. Whenever you see an entry from one of our Brothers like "6 X PAGK" or "9GK", that means "justicar + 5 GKs" or "justicar + 8 GKs". Apologize for the confusion.

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"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 1750 Pt. List assistance

Post by Grimhack on Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:37 pm

Every grey knight squad consists of a justicar and a number of knights, but it's just easier to refer to squads as a number of knights including the justicar as he is after all, like a squad sergeant.

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Re: 1750 Pt. List assistance

Post by Zealadin on Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:02 am

That he is, and hopefully next edition the first change is him being 5 points more, instead of double a PAGK cost.

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Re: 1750 Pt. List assistance

Post by Nausaden on Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:54 am

True, our weakness is instant death with our GM's, but thats what the glorious retinue is for Smile You get to be picky and choosey with what saves you want him to make.

Funny thing actually, the other day I was up against guard at 2000 points. Early in the game, barrages of anti vehicle fire caused my Crusader that carried the GrandMaster to explode. He and his beloved retinue had to walk all the way, using cover of course, to the enemy's huge bastion. Well, instead of firing at my other 2 Land Raiders, the Guardsmen focused damn near everything they had at the Grandmasters squad. I was using a Vindicare in this list, so I was able to take care of the extra orders, bombardment guy, and some of the nasty units in Straken's little group (That silly medic for one). The Grandmaster and two of his original 6 retinue take the brunt from Straken, the Grandmaster slaying the robo-man in close combat. By the end, it was just the Grandmaster and his faithful Incinerator buddy.

But now, the funny thing is, they took an entire turn of shooting, with plasma and lascannons...and didn't fail a single wound! The Incinerator GKT took, and I counted, 6 5+ invuln saves individually and passed them all! My opponent was thinking that I had to be cheating with luck like that Very Happy They both made it through the game, the Grandmaster down to a single wound, but promotions were clearly in order. I thank the slightly larger termie squad and the Grandmaster's "free" wounds to their success >Smile "The Emperor Protects" cheers

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Re: 1750 Pt. List assistance

Post by Rivan on Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:18 pm

That is awesome Very Happy Always a good feeling when you defy the dice odds like that.

That's one thing I miss since I've been playing an all GK list: the Vindicare assassin. I loved the tense feeling before I roll that "to wound" dice needing a 4+ and taking out a key model from my opponent's army Very Happy

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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 1750 Pt. List assistance

Post by Driz1 on Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:54 pm

Thanks for the tips brothers. I will be running test games at 1750 against orks and wolves this weekend.

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Re: 1750 Pt. List assistance

Post by Rivan on Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:44 pm

Good luck and let us know how it goes Very Happy

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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 1750 Pt. List assistance

Post by Aubec le noir on Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:50 am

Driz1 wrote:Thanks for the tips brothers. I will be running test games at 1750 against orks and wolves this weekend.
against orks 'cinnies will be welcome Wink
and for the wolfes be very careful in cc, I underestimated those wolf guards / overvitamined sarges / mini characters once ... only once ... they are awful in cc !! affraid
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Re: 1750 Pt. List assistance

Post by DarkRonin on Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:05 am

That they are. I just played for the first time against the Mutts in a friendly game of 1500 and a single squad of Wolf Guard (Power Armor), and they single handedly took down 7 GK, but the Justicar took three out on the defense before falling to there foul Frost Weapons. Though other knights did cut down other members of the squad leaving only a lone wolf with a Thunder Hammer. Yea, my opponent had 3 squads of them with Logan, Ajac, and Bjorn (Who fell to a lascannon shot on the first round of Dawn of War). Be wary of Ajac though, his Hammer is really nasty in the shooting phase, wrecked a raider in one shot. In the end though, all that was left was that one lone wolf with the hammer, everyone else died from concentrated fire (Yes, both Ajac and Logan died to storm bolters) and careful assaults that I started with Stern.

As Brother Aubec says, be careful about getting into CC with them, if you really want to prevail, keep shooting and stay out of reach until your sure that you will overcome them in Assault.

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Re: 1750 Pt. List assistance

Post by Driz1 on Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:23 am

Didnt get a chance to get in any games this weekend, had to take nephew to his yellow belt testing at his dojo. Trying to set up some games this weekend. Will keep you posted brothers

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Re: 1750 Pt. List assistance

Post by Driz1 on Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:25 pm

Faced off against my friends 1750 of orks we are both testing our tourney armies for this weekend.

I utterly crushed him in 6 turns annihilation end of turn 6 all he had left on the table was an empty immobilized battle wagon with 1 weapon.

I cleared a Deffdread, 3 Kans, 1 Wboss with a nob and 10 boys, 25 shootas, 30 sluggaz with a knob and a mad doc, a wartruck carrying the warboss, snikrot +a knob and 10 boys.

Killed 25 shootas in 1 shooting/assault phase with my crusader and a 6 man PAGK squad with 1 cinnie.

Hes got a few more vehicles on order and some AV platforms because the only thing he did to any of my 3 Raiders was immobilize 1.

I lost 2 terminators from my retinue and a 6 man squad that stood in the path of his slugga squad to hold them after my squad demolished his shoota's.

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Re: 1750 Pt. List assistance

Post by Rivan on Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:39 pm

Well done, congrats! That's a pretty impressive massacre Razz

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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 1750 Pt. List assistance

Post by Aubec le noir on Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:47 am

what did i told you with the cinnies and hordes !? Wink
congrats pal
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Re: 1750 Pt. List assistance

Post by NemesisForce on Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:01 pm

Nicely done Driz1. I always inwardly enjoy the facial expression of an Ork opponent when you lay down the 'cinnie template on his bunched up Greenskins. Classic.

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Re: 1750 Pt. List assistance

Post by Driz1 on Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:47 pm

Hes completely reworked his army list due to the flaws I warned him about and exposed.

1750 Tourney Saturday I cant wait.

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Re: 1750 Pt. List assistance

Post by Driz1 on Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:24 pm

I wish I did wait. I suffered 3 defeats. All very bad sorta...

First game was against space marines a very bike heavy army. I had him against the ropes all game. First turn I immobilized his Redeemer with Assault terms in it and 1 land speader, 2nd turn I immobilized his other speeder. 3 bike squads all out flanking none made it in until turn 3.

By turn 5 I had 3 points capped to his 2 but his bikes shot my 1 squad that wasnt in a raider off a point and killed em. and another bike unit rushed 1 of my points and contested it giving him a major victory.

next 2 games I was massacred lost all 3 land raiders in both games.

game 2 was against Tau he had I think 12 Rail guns blew up my LRC mid map and 1 of my regular LRs at the edge of my deployment. Blew up the 3rd in turn 2.

Shot me to pieces I got 1 round of melee in with my HQ unit made them run and got shot to pieces by everything else, same to my other 2 squads. In total I had 4 melee engagements the entire game. Was an objective based mission and melee was my only real chance but never got it.

3 Round I lost 3 raiders vs 2 eldar walkers my 4 lascanons did 1 ONE! wound to his walkers the entire game before being blown up in turns 5 and 6. It was a very shooty eldar turn 6 all I had was my double psycannon PAGK squad that was in a building he had close to 75% of his army, again I got 2 melee engagements in total. I failed my hammerhand roll and lost my GM to a walker with 1 wound left.

Mostly bad rolling and bad luck today. my second and 3rd opponents where very nice and helpful but rolled like lady luck herself.

1500 Points in september here I come =).

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Re: 1750 Pt. List assistance

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