1750 vs Eldar

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1750 vs Eldar

Post by Rivan on Sun May 30, 2010 4:38 pm

Had an interesting game today vs an eldar player. He's also a participant in the GW North American 40K tourney so this proved to be a good practice game for both us (though more so for me as you will see) since we might potentially face each other.

Eldar list
Farseer w/ 8 warlocks w/ wave serpent
1 x storm guardians squad w/ wave serpent
2 x fire dragon squads w/ wave serpents
2 x dire avengers squads w/ wave serpents

My standard 1750 tourney list
HQ - GM w/ m-c nfw, p-cannon, si, ph and HH + 4 GKT (1 'cinnie)
TR - Justicar w/ mb + 6 PAGKs
TR - Justicar w/ mb + 6 PAGKs
TR - Justicar + 7 PAGKs (2 'cinnies)
HS - Dread w/ twllc, dccw w/ 'cinnie, ea
HS - LR w/ ea & sl
HS - LR w/ ea & sl

Mission was annihilation w/ pitched battle deployment (we were already told by the store manager that the 2nd and 3rd rounds in June and July will use the same mission and deployment)

I won the roll off and chose my table side as well as to go first, however, he was able to seize initiative.


deployment (above)

For his 1st movement, he rushed everything forward as expected. He shot at the dread w/ a missile but didn't do anything.

on my move, I maneuvered into firing positions and shot but only managed to stun one of the wave serpents carrying the fire dragons. wave serpents are pretty tough to stop w/ their energy fields (LC are only considered str 8 ). I already knew this was going to be bad.

on his 2nd turn move, he came closer and disembarked both fd squads in front of my dread and my LR (w/ HQ inside).

meanwhile, his other ws also sped closer and disembarked both dire avenger squads and the seer council. During his shooting, as was expected, he destroyed both the dread and my HQ's LR while he knocked out 2 PAGK from my squad on the right flank (below)


on my 2nd turn, moved my left flank PAGK closer to the fd while my HQ moved in on the other fd squad. HQ squad shot and burned the fd squad in front of them but the PAGK squad only managed to down 1 from the other squad. on the right flank, the LR immobilized 1 ws and the PAGK squad killed 4 dire avengers. *crucial mistake here, I totally did not consider how deadly the seer council would be in assault on a vehicle, had I known, I would have changed my movement tactics this round.

his 3rd turn move, as you can see, his surviving fd embarked again and both ws zoomed out of my assault range...

while on the right flank, everybody closed in on my forces. the right most ws tried to tank shock my squad but a successful "death or glory" from my justicar's mb destroyed the tank. however, combined shooting from the rear dire avengers squad as well as the painted ws killed my squad to a man. in his assault phase both the front da squad and the seer council charged my LR. he pretty much surrounded my LR on all sides. countless str 9 automatic hits destroyed my LR and killed my squad inside because they can't even use emergency disembarkation.
by this time, he was up 5 KP to 2 and w/ no more mobility for me, I called it and gave him the victory. It was very well played game on his part and I really respected the tactics he used.
Lessons learned for me:
1) in hindsight, knowing that I'm up against a very mobile force, I should have consolidated my forces in one area rather than splitting them up. At least, he would be forced to converge on me and bring almost all his units within range of my units. Plus, my units would have been able to support each other too.
2) more research! Again, had I known about the seer council's str 9 assault on vehicles, I would have backed up my LR a little bit, disembarked my PAGK squad and incinerated him to death (no saves whatsoever for them).
3) psychic hood really came to the fore. I was able to negate almost half the forturne and doom powers used by the farseer

Overall, a very enjoyable game w/ a very nice player. Given the right strategy and tactics, I could have just as easily beaten him so it was definitely a learning experience Very Happy If ever I do end up facing him in the 2nd round (Jun 19-20), I'll definitely be more prepared and it will be PAYBACK time Razz Razz

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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 1750 vs Eldar

Post by rogueuk on Sun May 30, 2010 4:51 pm

yes its easy to underestimate the eldar they look so fragile but they hit you like a landraider
nice battle if you had consoladated your force like you said after could have been different

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Re: 1750 vs Eldar

Post by NemesisForce on Sun May 30, 2010 7:52 pm

Aren't Fire Dragons just yummy? (rather have a rectal probe than face them, thank you). And trying to take out Eldar transports early is that much more frustrating when you consider how much the outcome of the game is influenced by your doing or not doing so.

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Re: 1750 vs Eldar

Post by Rivan on Sun May 30, 2010 8:01 pm

NemesisForce wrote:Aren't Fire Dragons just yummy? (rather have a rectal probe than face them, thank you). And trying to take out Eldar transports early is that much more frustrating when you consider how much the outcome of the game is influenced by your doing or not doing so.

LOL so true. I had 1 turn of shooting to take them out and force the fire dragons to footslog (2 if he hadn't seized the initiative). Still, as I continue to do a turn by turn analysis, I discover other tactics I could have used that probably would have changed the course of the game. Ain't hindsight just peachy? Razz

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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 1750 vs Eldar

Post by raven925 on Sun May 30, 2010 9:35 pm

I have played against this player more than any player in that GW, and every time is a surprise. you never know whats going to happen. it some what irritates me that eldar have units that are each made for one job and they do it very well.

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Re: 1750 vs Eldar

Post by Dark Bjoern on Sun May 30, 2010 9:46 pm

I feel with you. A friend of mine plays with the same list. Itīs not funny. He had beaten my SW, Tyranids and Salamanders.

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Re: 1750 vs Eldar

Post by Strasz on Sun May 30, 2010 10:36 pm

Just one thing I picked up, which makes the list illegal is that you cant take a transport for your Farseer and Warlock unit. You can start them on the board and embark them in an empty transport, but buying a dedicated transport for them is not allowed.

This might be a house rule or something, Im not sure, just wanted to point it out. This is also the reason I run my Seer Council on bikes.

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Re: 1750 vs Eldar

Post by MJSwasey on Sun May 30, 2010 11:51 pm

Doesn't page 60 of the eldar codex specifically mention you CAN put them in a transport if they aren't in bikes?

And yes, i think the biggest advice i constantly hear regarding eldar is : DON'T SPREAD OUT. looks like you learned some good lessons.

Eldar are probably one of the armies most opposite from us. We are somewhat static, and have a few Heavy Vehicles, they are fast with light vehicles. We have squads good at everything, they have squads good at everything, but each squad is only good at one thing, nothing else.

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Re: 1750 vs Eldar

Post by Rivan on Mon May 31, 2010 1:13 am

raven925 wrote:I have played against this player more than any player in that GW, and every time is a surprise. you never know whats going to happen. it some what irritates me that eldar have units that are each made for one job and they do it very well.

Yeah, he mentioned playing you before and he said that your 3 raider list really gave him a hard time Very Happy

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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 1750 vs Eldar

Post by Strasz on Mon May 31, 2010 2:01 am

MJSwasey wrote:Doesn't page 60 of the eldar codex specifically mention you CAN put them in a transport if they aren't in bikes?

And yes, i think the biggest advice i constantly hear regarding eldar is : DON'T SPREAD OUT. looks like you learned some good lessons.

Eldar are probably one of the armies most opposite from us. We are somewhat static, and have a few Heavy Vehicles, they are fast with light vehicles. We have squads good at everything, they have squads good at everything, but each squad is only good at one thing, nothing else.

That is actually a good point and after reading it again it is correct. Take a Warlock squad and up them in a transport and attach the Farseer to the squad. Seems I misinterpreted the wording as taking the Farseer and adding the warlocks and obviously no transport entry under Independent Characters Embarassed

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Re: 1750 vs Eldar

Post by Slind on Mon May 31, 2010 5:02 am

I've been playing Eldars for 4 years now, and the key to beating the crap out of them is.
1. Use bolter traps!!
2. Use PsyCannons for instant-gibbing at long range
3. Do NOT isolate your units
4. Do not get tempted into taking on the Seercounsil with anything but light dakka (It is poison to them).
5. Try to place objectives in clusters, and avoid placing isolated objectives

Personally I think that DH are one of the easiest armies to take on Eldar with.

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Re: 1750 vs Eldar

Post by Grimhack on Mon May 31, 2010 9:58 am

Eldar are a nasty army but the two tournament eldar players that I usually play against really find grey knights to be annoying to say the least, having a lot of anti psychic stuff, anti invulnerable saves (was there a seercouncil infront of my incinerator?) and tough transports.
And I personally find that if the eldar player commits himself, the games usually end gruesome with lots of death on both sides but really fun. If they however decide to keep everything in reserve and do late game objective grabs/contestings then the game is really boring and there isn't much you can do against it...

Now that I think about it, this didn't have a lot to do with your game so to have a response to the game:
The eldar player played it really well, crippling one of your flanks and annihilating the other flank. No doubt a good lesson for future confrontations with those filthy xenos.

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Re: 1750 vs Eldar

Post by Rivan on Mon May 31, 2010 10:31 am

Yup. If my tanks were together, I could have concentrated fire on the the two wave serpents carrying the fire dragons. I would have probably stopped at least one if not both of them before they got close.

_________________
"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 1750 vs Eldar

Post by Nausaden on Mon May 31, 2010 12:20 pm

*Nods* A good lesson learned Brother Rivan; I fight a list very similar to this all the time, but have always won. My lists similar to yours, but I put an incinerator on 2 squads and 2 psycannons in a single squad as a firing base. Psychic hood is bloody useful, since it can cripple the Eldars crutch (Fortune and doom!)

I very much hope you get to face this player again and use what you've learned to claim a delicious victory! Twisted Evil

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Re: 1750 vs Eldar

Post by Aubec le noir on Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:37 pm

I'm back from vacation in andalucia and i'm happy to read a good rep in this difficult moment Razz Razz Razz Razz
eldars are very difficult to beat when well played, but GK have good arguments : hood, incinerators, psycannons (especially that one) and general toughness
I'm sure you'll beat hi next time brother Rivan, the lessons you learned the hard way are always unforgetable lessons Wink
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