North American 40K Tournament

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Re: North American 40K Tournament

Post by Socrates on Mon May 31, 2010 3:10 pm

Really nice m8 Smile Sorry for not introducing myself but i am new to this forum but playing DH since the 4th edition.Make us proud Smile

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Re: North American 40K Tournament

Post by Rivan on Mon May 31, 2010 3:19 pm

Welcome Brother!

Yeah, both raven925 and I play at the same local GW. We're excited for the 2nd and 3rd rounds coming up Very Happy

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"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: North American 40K Tournament

Post by Rivan on Mon May 31, 2010 6:26 pm

Need some opinions again Brothers. As far as I know (from what my local GW store manager tells me), players are not restricted to the same 1750 pt list they used in the first round. Looks like we are able to tweak our lists for the 2nd and 3rd rounds. That being said, I'm considering a slight variation on my list and would like to know what you guys think.

Original 1750 tourney list:
HQ - GM w/ m-c nfw, p-cannon, si, ph and HH + 4 GKT (1 'cinnie)
TR - 7 x PAGKs (justicar has mb)
TR - 7 x PAGKs (justicar has mb)
TR - 8 X PAGKs (2 'cinnies)
HS - GK dread w/ twllc, dccw w/ 'cinnie and ea
HS - LR w/ ea and sl
HS - LR w/ ea and sl

With changes:
HQ - GM w/ m-c nfw, p-cannon, si, ph and HH + 3 GKT (1 'cinnie)
EL - BC w/ 3 GKT
TR - 7 x PAGKs (justicar has mb and auspex)
TR - 7 x PAGKs
TR - 8 x PAGKs (2 'cinnies)
HS - LR w/ ea and sl
HS - LR w/ ea and sl

Same number of troops, basically swapped the dread for a 4-man GKT squad and reduced HQ retinue by 1 GKT. Still end up having a total of 8 GKT (including GM) split into two units.
However, considering giving up 1 PAGK and giving the elite GKT a psycannon. Thoughts?


Last edited by Rivan on Mon May 31, 2010 7:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

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"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: North American 40K Tournament

Post by raven925 on Mon May 31, 2010 7:54 pm

Im a big fan of termies so im liking the second list but, i dont know about them footslogging it. i see the 1 GK squad with 2 cinnie's would go in the one LR and your first termie squad go in the other but, having the other GKT squad walk is somewhat risky for me. i know as soon as the enemy see's them walkin they will attract alot of fire and thats one weakness of termies. and deep striking is just too risky knowing that one bad roll could end a 200+ point unit that could have saved the game. im not sure which one is better, if i were me(which i am.. most of the time), id flip on it, it hasent failed me yet. Rolling Eyes

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Re: North American 40K Tournament

Post by Grimhack on Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:44 am

I like the option you said, giving an elite terminator a psycannon. That way he can provide fire from your lines and if the enemy gets close your terminators can be a counter attack unit. It works for me but usually in objective based games where the enemy will probably come closer. I don't know if it would be good in killpoints. I think the dread could be more usefull in taking down those transports and tying up a nasty unit of some sorts that doesn't have meltabombs or stuff like it.

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Re: North American 40K Tournament

Post by Nausaden on Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:47 am

Personally Brother Rivan, I like your first list more. Probably because I love Grey Knight Dreadnoughts for one, and as awesome as Grey Knight Termie squads are (and of course, make no mistake, they are the best we have!) A single, slightly larger one is probably more effective. Namely with the shielding of the Land Raider.

You could probably play around with your PAGK squad sizes; drop a few and add a psycannon or two to a squad, etc. But of course you have been playing said tourney, so I'd trust your insights over mine Very Happy

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Re: North American 40K Tournament

Post by Rivan on Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:16 pm

I think its a toss up b/w the value of a dread and a 4 man GKT squad depending on what opponent you're facing and what mission you're playing.

I'm actually tempted to go more along the list Brother raven is playing since I don't really have to worry about scoring units for the 2nd and 3rd rounds, they will all be annihilation games.

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"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: North American 40K Tournament

Post by Nausaden on Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:42 pm

*Nods* Very well put Rivan, and I certainly agree. Never sucks harder then that Dreadnought miserably failing his single shot, and then being obliterated by hordes of meltas and the like.

I personally have developed my own list, that borrows heavily on your template, since my earliest days with Grey Knights *in trying to play competitively!* and its always very interesting to see what you'll do next Very Happy

Aye, I like Raven's list too. I have complete faith in both your abilities to show how Grey Knights are still truly a fearsome force, regardless of what the masses think! cheers

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Re: North American 40K Tournament

Post by raven925 on Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:39 pm

I am some what glad to see that you are considering a list like mine, brother Rivan.
i also decided to take the assassin and inquisitor out after much much much much thought, i realised that the inq and assassin are 2 easy KP that i cant allow my opponent to have the pleasure of killing and by taking them away i get stronger squads with more power.

P.S- what day does the next round take place on?

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Re: North American 40K Tournament

Post by Rivan on Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:52 pm

June 19-20.

The fact that we know its going to be annihilation again, I might use a 3 raider list too (still debating). Although mine will be 2 LR's and 1 LRC. I'm putting the list together right now and will post it shortly Very Happy

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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: North American 40K Tournament

Post by Rivan on Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:14 am

Okay, here's my version of a 3 raider list that I may use for the 2nd and 3rd rounds. I normally shy away from having less than 3 Troops choices but scoring units don't count anyway and this list actually has less KP to give up. (Thanks to Brother raven925 for the idea of course Very Happy )

HQ - GM w/ m-c nfw, p-cannon, si, ph & HH
5 GKTs (1 'cinnie, 1 TH & SS)
TR - 8 x PAGK (2 'cinnies)
TR - 8 x PAGK (2 'cinnies)
HS - LRC w/ sl, pmsb
HS - LR w/ ea & sl
HS - LR w/ ea & sl

Thoughts and comments?

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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: North American 40K Tournament

Post by Grimhack on Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:30 pm

I think it's nice, if they stay away, shrouding and high armour keeps you alive while killing them and if they get close, incinerators and bolterfire will take them down.

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Re: North American 40K Tournament

Post by Brother Ezekiel on Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:17 pm

Tho sometimes you might be very unlucky.I remember when I played Laura,my Grey Knightess friend and she used 3 LRs,just like you with 1 LRC and 2 LRs.I played with my White Raven Space Marines and had a dev squad with 4 lascannons,full bike squad with meltas,pf and a attack bike added with a multi-melta and captain on bike with a command squad,with some meltas and also a squad of scouts and I think 2 more squads of bikers.I turbo-boosted all my bikers into her deloiment zone with the smaller 2 squads of bikers being in the front,while the full and catain with command squad behind them.Scouts sat at the objective,since it was Capture and Control and devies were near,on a hill with great fire arc.She moved up,unleshed her pagk squads from the land raiders,who charged the smaller bikes,wipping them out,taking a few casulties themselves and cnsolidated backwards to twards theyr lrs.Then my full bike squad moved in with the captain and his retinue,shot theyr meltas at the lrs and boom both lrs were destroyed.Then thse bikers charged and wied out the pagk,same with catain&retinue.Then devies shot at the lrc still left and boom.Exploded,leaving her HQ squad in the crater to be mopped up.She conceded after that,since she only had her HQ unit left and her elite deepstriking termies.

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Re: North American 40K Tournament

Post by Nausaden on Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:43 pm

I love it a lot! Still, as is always the case, lucky freaking shots can ruin our day's with so few things! How do you plan to run the Land Raiders Rivan? I certainly love the incinerators!

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Re: North American 40K Tournament

Post by raven925 on Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:13 pm

Im liking the list, but i just thought of what would happen if we faced each other. terrible things. Evil or Very Mad

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Re: North American 40K Tournament

Post by Nausaden on Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:18 pm

A Grey Knight would never fight another Grey Knight; neither can be so deluded or tricked! But a friendly sparing match, that on the other hands acceptable Laughing

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Re: North American 40K Tournament

Post by Grimhack on Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:48 am

It would be quite the sight, 6 landraiders clashing...

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Re: North American 40K Tournament

Post by Rivan on Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:58 am

Grimhack wrote:It would be quite the sight, 6 landraiders clashing...

Not to mention 2 Grandmasters going toe to toe Razz

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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: North American 40K Tournament

Post by Grimhack on Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:16 am

One of the grandmasters must've stolen a chip of the emperors toenail from the other grandmaster.

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Re: North American 40K Tournament

Post by Brother Ezekiel on Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:45 am

I wonder how many times his toenails have been cutten...

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Re: North American 40K Tournament

Post by Rivan on Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:29 pm

While I haven't really play tested my 3 raider list, I simulated different scenarios and I feel that at the 1750 level, the 3 raider list I came up w/ is a very big gamble (thanks Brother Ezekiel for re-emphasizing the possibilities of melta spams and lascannon spams). If the raiders survive until at least turn 3, it should bode well for me. If by ill chance they get knocked out earlier, then my HQ and 2 troop squads will be sitting ducks w/ no real long range weapons. I think I'm going to opt for 2 raiders and more units on the board instead. As I was tweaking my 2 raider list, my son came up w/ this suggestion of a list (tourney style vs all-comers):

HQ - GM w/ m-c nfw, p-cannon, si, ph & HH
3 GKT's (1 p-cannon)
TR - 5 x PAGK (2 p-cannons)
TR - 5 x PAGK (2 p-cannons)
TR - 5 x PAGK (2 p-cannons)
TR - 5 x PAGK (2 p-cannons)
HS - LR w/ ea & sl
HS - LR w/ ea & sl

Lots of shooting (10 p-cannons = 30 str 6 shots a turn). All units would normally start on the board, although at least 2 units will be close to each LR if they need to hop inside. I know the biggest drawback is the small squads but this list is meant to shoot a lot first and wait for the opponent to come to me (hopefully by then, dwindled down already). Still have 41 pts to allocate.

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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: North American 40K Tournament

Post by Titus on Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:26 pm

Rivan wrote:

HQ - GM w/ m-c nfw, p-cannon, si, ph & HH
3 GKT's (1 p-cannon)
TR - 5 x PAGK (2 p-cannons)
TR - 5 x PAGK (2 p-cannons)
TR - 5 x PAGK (2 p-cannons)
TR - 5 x PAGK (2 p-cannons)
HS - LR w/ ea & sl
HS - LR w/ ea & sl

Lots of shooting (10 p-cannons = 30 str 6 shots a turn). All units would normally start on the board, although at least 2 units will be close to each LR if they need to hop inside. I know the biggest drawback is the small squads but this list is meant to shoot a lot first and wait for the opponent to come to me (hopefully by then, dwindled down already). Still have 41 pts to allocate.

First i would say that your better off giving the psycannon to termies as they can move and fire the full 36 inches. Definately allocate those extra points to a psycannon for your termie squad brother captain. Giving the 5 man PAGK squads 2 psycannons is giving up 4 strength 6 close combat attacks since they lose their nemisis weapon and storm bolter they are down to 1 strength 4 attack a peice. Plus if you move with them then they psycannons dont shoot unless within 18 inches of the enemy.

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Re: North American 40K Tournament

Post by Grimhack on Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:25 am

I think I like the list. I mean, what brother titus said is all true but for the range, you'd like to have the knights in cover, shooting untill the enemy comes close at which point most of them should have been shot already and if they aren't, if they can start shooting at you then you can move back and still shoot in the 18" (most armies use rapid fire weapons).
And if you get in combat, you must think of it this way, you can either sacrifice the squad to pound the enemy with all the squads around firing at them or you can charge in with more squads as you have not only maxed out on psycannons but also on justicars.
Not to mention that your opponent still has some raiders to worry about.

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Re: North American 40K Tournament

Post by Rivan on Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:14 am

Grimhack wrote:I think I like the list. I mean, what brother titus said is all true but for the range, you'd like to have the knights in cover, shooting untill the enemy comes close at which point most of them should have been shot already and if they aren't, if they can start shooting at you then you can move back and still shoot in the 18" (most armies use rapid fire weapons).
And if you get in combat, you must think of it this way, you can either sacrifice the squad to pound the enemy with all the squads around firing at them or you can charge in with more squads as you have not only maxed out on psycannons but also on justicars.
Not to mention that your opponent still has some raiders to worry about.

Exactly what I had in mind as well. I totally realize Brother Titus' point on the psycannon ranges but even on the move, it gives me 24" (6" move + 18" range) so backing up while shooting will usually still give me range advantage. This is vs. opponents who have to close in with me. This line up should do well against static gun lines like IG or tau also since staying at around the 35-36" range will allow me to fire at full effect while taking advantage of shrouding. Having this many psycannons also gives me higher probabilities of knocking out transports like rhinos while the raiders concentrate on heavier armor.

Again, the real drawback is the small unit sizes as a lucky hit from a blast weapon can potentially knock out a squad. That's where I will really have to rely on tactics and terrain to afford them the good cover Very Happy

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"Though we face the power of hell, and death is at our side, we fear not, for the Emperor is with us through it all. If we live, we live for the Emperor. If we die, we die for the Emperor. So whether we live or die, we are the Emperor's. We are Grey Knights and this is why we came to be." --Grandmaster Rivan

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: North American 40K Tournament

Post by NemesisForce on Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:54 am

Love the list. Psycannons thrive in Annihilation and it's cool you know beforehand that these will be the next missions. Yes, the squads will be fragile but since you'll be firing at longer ranges Shrouding might balance things out for at least the first turn or two.

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Re: North American 40K Tournament

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