1850pt DH vs Chaos Marines

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1850pt DH vs Chaos Marines

Post by Ceasarian on Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:12 pm

Last week I was finally able to get another game in, and finally use my 1850pt list, albeit with a couple of proxies and unpainted models (ugh…I hate doing that).
I was able to play against a great Chaos player, who was kind enough to walk me through a couple of my rules questions/ who gave me advice throughout the game as he knew it was my first time with such a list.

The game was Kill Points (Annihilation), with Dawn of War Deployment.
My list was:
HQ- Grey Knight Grand Master with Sacred Incense, Psychic Hood, and Holocaust with a retinue of 4x GKTs, one with an incinerator.
Troops-
7x GK’s with a Justicar (frag), and one incinerator
7x GK’s with a Justicar (frag), and one incinerator
5x IST with 2x Melta guns- Mounted in a Rhino with Extra Armor, and Smoke Launchers
5x IST with 2x Melta guns- Mounted in a Rhino with Extra Armor, and Smoke Launchers
Heavy Support-
1x GK Land Raider Crusader (with Smoke Launchers, and Dozar Blade)
2x GK Land Raiders (with Smoke Launchers, and Extra Armor)
1850 points

The Chaos player’s list was:
HQ- Khorn & Lucius
Troops-
9x Berserkers with a Champion with a power weapon, melta bombs, and 3x plasma pistols
9x Noise Marines with a Champion, power weapon, doom siren, 9 sonic weapons
7x Plague marines with a Champion, power fist, 2x melta guns, in a Rhino
9x Plague marines with a Champion with a power weapon, 2x plasma guns
Heavy Support-
1x Land Raider
Great Daemon
Defiler (Edited I totally forgot to put this one in)
1847/1850pts

It’s been nearly a week since the game, but I’ll do my best to accurately describe the game.
Deployment:
So I tried to deploy my Rhinos in front of the Raiders, so that I could throw up smoke and have my raiders behind a bit of a rhino wall (4+ cover save with popping smoke so everything glances? I’ll take it!). This was my first game using Rhinos in a game, so I’m not fully sure yet on how to “build the Rhino walls” as effectively as I had hoped. The Chaos player deployed his plague marines safely on a hill on the right most flank, and everything else was along his board edge.
Turn One:

All of his units advance, with the exception of the plague marines in cover on the right flank. All of his shooting failed to do anything, and I moved to react to his advancements. I moved my Land Raider to block his Raider- and sorta just tried stop his movements.

Turn Two:

My Rhinos were destroyed, one completely destroyed and the ISTs were then slaughtered rather rudely by the Plague Marines. The other Rhino was popped, but the IST’’s safely disembarked and destroyed the Chaos Rhino (the other rhino was popped by a Land Raider. The left most Raider also released the GK squad which assaulted the plague marines, locking the two squads in combat (man those Justicar power weapon attacks are great in CC). My Multi-melta on the Crusader missed I believe on this turn- a trend that would continue until turn 5 I believe….

Turn Three:

The left most Raider was immobilized by Chaos Shooting, and was then assaulted and rudely destroyed by the rampaging defiler (darnit). I’ve been on the ropes all game this far, but I’ve been learning a fair bit at this point. Lesson One: Keep Land Raiders moving at all times, at good pace (between 6-12 inches, that way it’s harder for things like lets say….Daemonic monster things and Kharn from beating down raiders)

Turn Four, Five and Six:

These turns sorta blurred together…I apologize about that. But basically Kharn jumped outa the raider and started swinging away at my Land Raider that had moved along his bored edge. As his noise marines moved in, I figured that they would move in to trap all of the GK’s destroying the raider and the squad in one move….so they ran…but not far enough as the squad was whittled down to two GK’s as their Land Raiders was completely destroyed by a very angry Kharn. I ended up charging my GK terminators with Grand Master into his plague marines, ripping into em. With just two plague marines left, the berserkers charged the terminators, felling one Terminator. In return the charging chaos marines were almost all cutt down. In the final turn six the terminators finished off the berserkers, and the plague marines.

I lost the game with five kill points to his seven- a great game against a great opponent. I think that next game I’m going to have to try to get the Rhino wall concept to work a bit better, but that’s probably going to take some practice. We’ll see how I do in future games with this list, but I’ll sure to post any future battle reports (win or lose).
I'll try to do better with my battle reports in the future.

-Cease


Last edited by Ceasarian on Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:18 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: 1850pt DH vs Chaos Marines

Post by Dark Bjoern on Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:36 pm

Next time it will work better for you. But 5 to 7 is not bad and Kharn is a mean bastard. Did i see a Defiler there? What happened to it? have you sand that fool daemon back to the warp?

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Re: 1850pt DH vs Chaos Marines

Post by Brother Ezekiel on Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:26 pm

Ceasarian wrote:The Chaos player’s list was:
HQ- Khorn & Lucius
Troops-
9x Berserkers with a Champion with a power weapon, melta bombs, and 3x plasma pistols
9x Noise Marines with a Champion, power weapon, doom siren, 9 sonic weapons
7x Plague marines with a Champion, power fist, 2x melta guns, in a Rhino
9x Plague marines with a Champion with a power weapon, 2x plasma guns
Heavy Support-
1x Land Raider
Great Daemon
1847/1850pts

But basically Kharn jumped outa the raider and started swinging away at my Land Raider that had moved along his bored edge.

Yeah I'd say thats a pretty goood Chaos list he has,but the Noise Marines really suprised me.Not many people take them anymore,unlike a couple editions backwards where everyone spammed them.Kharn is also said to be one of the most points-wise effective special characters in the CSM codex and I do like him the most out of the special characters in the codex.Also Lucius was anther thing that I kinda found weird,because in what I have heard/seen/expirienced hes not really worth hes points or pints.Oh and never,NEVER move your LR near a bored edge,because if ya do that thing are just bound to get interesting and you might not like it at all.


Last edited by Brother Ezekiel on Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:35 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: 1850pt DH vs Chaos Marines

Post by Ceasarian on Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:51 pm

I felt that it was a very fun game, and more importantly a great learning game for myself. As for the Defiler, well...I had some horrid bad luck taking that thing out. Literly I had at least two lascannons go at it each and every turn. By the end of the game, it was immobilized with every gun but one stripped off it. Very close to getting that kill point.
We had both figured that had the game gone on for another turn, he still would of won either by a single kill point, or by two. I would of ripped apart his Greater Daemon with my Terminators, and he would of destroyed the last two Power Armored Grey Knights milling about on the board- granted my LRC was the wild card, it could of shot up Kharn a ton in an attempt to make him roll ones (he only had three wounds left anway).

In conclusion though, a great game- and I suppose I just have to learn how to use those Rhinos a bit more effectivly (ie don't move them so their exit hatches can be easily blocked...).

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Re: 1850pt DH vs Chaos Marines

Post by NemesisForce on Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:15 pm

You learned and had fun. The two most important things to take out of a loss. Can't ask much more than that.

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Re: 1850pt DH vs Chaos Marines

Post by Rivan on Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:34 pm

Very nice batrep Brother. The pics definitely help paint a vivid reconstruction Very Happy

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Re: 1850pt DH vs Chaos Marines

Post by Titus on Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:48 pm

As far as your standard Land Raiders go, leave them empty, only move them 6' a turn so you can fire both TL Lascannons, and use the range on them. They shouldnt ever be in melta or charge range. Thats just wasting a huge point sink for Grey Knights.

If you want to use Land raiders to deliver troops thats what crusaders are for. Even then with the serious lack of anti-tank i am less likely to use them.

I seriously would have adjusted the points a bit to change out the rhinos for at least one chimera maybe two.

Knowing i was playing against a CSM Player I would change your list to something like this.

HQ- Grey Knight Grand Master with Sacred Incense, Psychic Hood, and Holocaust with a retinue of 4x GKTs, one with an incinerator.>384pts<
Troops-
8x GK’s with a Justicar (w/Targeter)>226pts<
8x GK’s with a Justicar (w/targeter)>226pts<
5x IST with 2x Melta guns- Mounted in a Chimera (with Extra Armor and Multi-laser turret) >155pts<
5x IST with 2x Melta guns- Mounted in a Chimera (with Extra Armor and Multi-laser turret) >155pts<
Heavy Support-
1x GK Land Raider Crusader (with Sacred Hull and Smoke Launchers) >273pts<
1x GK Land Raider (with Blessed and Extra Armor)>265pts<
1x GK Dreadnaught- TL Lascannons, Missle Launcher(with Blessed and Extra Armor)>155<
1849 points

This gives you better armored transports(to the front)with two fire points for your meltas plus a str 6 heavy 3 weapon that the rhino lacks.

Also you gain an extra PAGK per squad. I personally dont see the use of the incinerators in PAGK squads especially against CSM. I would rather have the 2 St6 nemisis force weapon attacks in HTH than the 1 St4 attack the special weapon guy gets. I can understand a single psycannon if you are objective camping, i assumed that was their purpose since your IST were outfitted for tank hunting and are too few to actually survive holding an objective.

I assumed you were putting the HQ in The Crusader and ramming it down Chaos's throat. The sacred Hull will help with survivability in proximity to asaulting enemy.

Adding Blessed to the other heavy choices, which should remain well back from the battle lines taking advantage of lascannon range, Gives a +1 to armor penetration against Deamon possessed vehicles such as that pesky Defiler and gives the dread the Aegis rule.

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Re: 1850pt DH vs Chaos Marines

Post by Aubec le noir on Sun Apr 11, 2010 1:45 am

very balanced battle, the 2 lists are solid
against chaos marines i would have taken only GK cause IST are a bit too fragile imho, but 5 to 7 for your first battle is a good result ... and try to find a way to destroy Kharn (by shooting at him or put your GM in his way... scratch )
i see that your GM and retinue did a great job ... as expected Twisted Evil
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Re: 1850pt DH vs Chaos Marines

Post by Ceasarian on Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:24 am

I really wasn't trying to just go against one specific opponent in this game, as this was more of a test of my overall "all-comers" 1850pt list, more than something to be tooled up against Chaos specifically.

I felt that my list did some things well, and other well not so much, I was more agressive at the start of that last game than I really needed to be. I could of tried to spread his forces thin popping them from afar then moving up to engage each and every squad by itself- something that I need to keep in mind for later. The failure of my use of the Rhino tanks was also a big problem, giving him four kill points out of the starting gate- with only giving me one KP back in return.

The biggest problem that I probably had overall with the game was my inability to roll well for armor penetration. Against his Defiler- even against rear armor I was still glancing, and missing altogether with lascannons. To add insult to injury my multi-melta stunned his raider for a turn, with every other turn missing the giant red tank.
My choice for the incinerator is due to the prevelance of non MEQ armies, and my inabilty to hit squat (reset the clock) when using the pricy Psycannons.

I'll be sure to post additional Battle Reports as when I get to play agian, and I'll be making a few small changes to my list.

-Cease

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Re: 1850pt DH vs Chaos Marines

Post by Titus on Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:57 pm

I totally understand about dice failing when it comes to armor penetration.

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Re: 1850pt DH vs Chaos Marines

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