Psycannons, Incinerators, Thunder Hammers oh my!

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Psycannons, Incinerators, Thunder Hammers oh my!

Post by Constantine on Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:56 am

I am putting together my first two GKT squads and I am wondering what your guys opinions and experiences are in terms of who to arm with Psycannons and Incinerators.

Should the Justicar in a 5 man GKT squad carry the Psycannon because of his better BS? or is this a risky build because of the potential of loosing so much if he dies?

Do you think that Incinerators should be in each squad?

I have also noticed that Thunder Hammer and Storm shields are also a popular choice, what are your thoughts on these, and where they should be used?

Basically I am looking to build two versatile squads of GKTs and I am not sure what to do Shocked

Here is a list of what I have to work with:

5 GKTs assembled with Storm Bolters and NFWs
5 GKT bodies
5 NFW arms
5 Storm Bolters arms
2 Incinerators arms
1 Justicar conversion without a weapon arm (I will buy a Psycannon if neccessary)
1 Assembled Justicar conversion with Psycannon
1 GM conversion with two handed NFW that has a Storm Bolter built into it (This could count as a Psycannon if needed)

Any help will be greatly appreciated Brothers. I do not really have any spare time to play 40K but I want to make squads that will be effective if I ever get to play.

BC

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Re: Psycannons, Incinerators, Thunder Hammers oh my!

Post by DarkRonin on Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:07 am

As far as I know, Justicar's have the same BS as any other Grey Knight, Brother Captains included. Only the GM has better BS and its 5. And you'd have to go for a loophole where the Justicar has artificer armor in order to use a Psycannon because he's only allowed any item from the "Wargear" section only. This is because only Grey Knights in Power Armor are well trained in their blessed gear that they only use them and thus can only take wargear allowed.

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Re: Psycannons, Incinerators, Thunder Hammers oh my!

Post by Constantine on Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:19 am

Maybe I am not explaining myslef properly or using the right terminology.

I am only talking about Grey Knight Terminator(GKT)squads.
Is the leader of a GKT squad not a Justicar? Is it a Brother Captain? if so, Captain is what I am refering to Razz
And if their BS isn't any different then never mind about that point, but thank you for telling me. There are still many areas I could use assitance with.

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Re: Psycannons, Incinerators, Thunder Hammers oh my!

Post by Aubec le noir on Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:13 am

i converted some GKT with SS/TH my intention was : 7 GKT + BC with SS/TH ( deamonhammer and incinerator for the BC)
I still want to do this
But for versatile GKT i prefer = (let's say for 5) BC + psycannon (cause i love it Twisted Evil ) and NFW + 3 GKT NFW/SB and 1 GKT SS/TH (just in case of big creatures and vehicles)
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Re: Psycannons, Incinerators, Thunder Hammers oh my!

Post by Constantine on Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:17 pm

Aubec le noir wrote:i converted some GKT with SS/TH my intention was : 7 GKT + BC with SS/TH ( deamonhammer and incinerator for the BC)
I still want to do this
But for versatile GKT i prefer = (let's say for 5) BC + psycannon (cause i love it Twisted Evil ) and NFW + 3 GKT NFW/SB and 1 GKT SS/TH (just in case of big creatures and vehicles)
Aubec pirat

Thanks Brother,

So do you think two GKT squads with:

1 Brother Captain with Psycannon and NFW
3 GKTs with NFW/SB
1 SS/TH

would be a good build?

What if one of the squads was to replace the TH/SS for an Incinerator?

_________________
+++"There is nothing in the arcane and blasphemous arsenal of the forces of Chaos that can compare to faith. With the power of faith, our weapons become shining instruments of deliverance that can cleave the mightiest daemon in twain. With the power of faith, our minds appear as slivers of pure agony to the daemon, driving into the wretched forms of those who would dare stand before us. With the power of faith, our words become commands that cause the daemon to cower and cringe in terror. I could meet my enemies unarmed without a shred of fear in my chest, for I know that the Emperor watches over me and guides my hand. So let them come. We shall show them what the power of faith can do."+++ (Brother Captain Stern)

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Re: Psycannons, Incinerators, Thunder Hammers oh my!

Post by Rivan on Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:39 pm

As an example I'll use the 2 GKT squads in my 2000 pt army and I'll explain the rationale behind it.

GM w/ psycannon (because of his BS 5; and I think because he's a GM Razz )
Retinue of 4 GKTs (1 with 'cinnie, 2 w/ SB & 1 w/ TH & SS)

They usually embark in the LR and is the unit I use for a surgical strike at the enemy. That's why I won't lose too much shooting opportunities since the 'cinnie is short ranged and the TH GKT can't shoot. The idea is they'll just jump out, shoot and kill. The TH is precisely like Brother Aubec mentioned (for MC and possibly vehicles)

My elite GKT unit is a BC + 4 GKT (1 w/ psycannon)

They will usually sit back at long to mid-range and support a PAGK squad on a home objective. I gave the psycannon to a normal GKT because: 1) it only costs 25 pts vice giving it to the BC which will cost 30, and 2) they have the same BS anyway. In the rare occasion that I DS them, they will still have a 360 degree 24" / 36" threat range Very Happy

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"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: Psycannons, Incinerators, Thunder Hammers oh my!

Post by Klomster on Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:31 pm

I threw in a GKT with TH SH in my terminator squad.

Always fun amking a big bloke enemy not beeing able to act the next round Razz

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Re: Psycannons, Incinerators, Thunder Hammers oh my!

Post by Constantine on Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:20 pm

Cool, This is very helpful.

I think I will go with:

1 Brother Captain w/ Psycannon
4 GKT with SB

For the long range hurt.

1 Brother Captain w/ Psycannon
1 GKT w/ 'Cinie
1 GKT w/ TH/SS
2 GKT w/ SB

For up close and personal.

I know that there isn't a good reason to spend more on a Psycannon for the Captains, but I like the idea fluff wise.

I am also going to run a GM, which leads me to another question......
Should I have the GM running around by himself, os should I attach him to one of the GKT squads?

Just so you know, I will be using the model that I began to convert into a Chaplain as the GM. He is the one with the SB mounted on his NFW. I was also thinking that I could use this weapon as a "counts as a Psycannon" What do you think?

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+++"There is nothing in the arcane and blasphemous arsenal of the forces of Chaos that can compare to faith. With the power of faith, our weapons become shining instruments of deliverance that can cleave the mightiest daemon in twain. With the power of faith, our minds appear as slivers of pure agony to the daemon, driving into the wretched forms of those who would dare stand before us. With the power of faith, our words become commands that cause the daemon to cower and cringe in terror. I could meet my enemies unarmed without a shred of fear in my chest, for I know that the Emperor watches over me and guides my hand. So let them come. We shall show them what the power of faith can do."+++ (Brother Captain Stern)

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Re: Psycannons, Incinerators, Thunder Hammers oh my!

Post by Rivan on Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:24 pm

I think the weapon's "coolness" points is more than enough for it to be considered a psycannon.

I personally prefer to give my GM a retinue. This prevents him from being targeted in CC (specially by power fists). I think it is a cool 5th ed rule that we need to take advantage of (since very few HQ's have that luxury anymore).

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"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: Psycannons, Incinerators, Thunder Hammers oh my!

Post by Constantine on Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:30 pm

HMMMMMMMM......
I don't want my GM being squished by a powerfist! Would it be legal to add my GM to a 5 man GKT squad?

And, is there any such thing as a twin linked Psycannon? or perhaps a twin linked one? This could account for the two barrels.

_________________
+++"There is nothing in the arcane and blasphemous arsenal of the forces of Chaos that can compare to faith. With the power of faith, our weapons become shining instruments of deliverance that can cleave the mightiest daemon in twain. With the power of faith, our minds appear as slivers of pure agony to the daemon, driving into the wretched forms of those who would dare stand before us. With the power of faith, our words become commands that cause the daemon to cower and cringe in terror. I could meet my enemies unarmed without a shred of fear in my chest, for I know that the Emperor watches over me and guides my hand. So let them come. We shall show them what the power of faith can do."+++ (Brother Captain Stern)

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Re: Psycannons, Incinerators, Thunder Hammers oh my!

Post by Rivan on Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:45 pm

If you purchase a 5 man retinue for your GM, you basically save 15 points since there is no BC. Heck, you can even purchase up to a 9-man retinue.

The only twin-linked psycannon in the game are vehicle mounted ones (for the GK LRR and the Inquisition razorback). The double barrels shouldn't be a problem. As a GM, he can have any kind of specialized equipment so his psycannon is far less bulky than the standard one and maybe it fires two smaller psycannon bolts in lieu one big one everytime its fired Very Happy

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"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: Psycannons, Incinerators, Thunder Hammers oh my!

Post by Constantine on Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:45 pm

OK........
So this is what I have come up with:

1 Grand Master w/ Psycannon
1 GKT w/ Incinerator
3 GKT w/ SB/NFW
1 GKT w/ TH/SS

1 Brother Captain
3 GKT w/ SB/NFW
1 GKT w/ Psycannon

Now the next question is... Which GW model gives the best bitz to create a GKT w/ TH/SS?
Lysander?
Does any one have any plastic shields or hammers for trade?

_________________
+++"There is nothing in the arcane and blasphemous arsenal of the forces of Chaos that can compare to faith. With the power of faith, our weapons become shining instruments of deliverance that can cleave the mightiest daemon in twain. With the power of faith, our minds appear as slivers of pure agony to the daemon, driving into the wretched forms of those who would dare stand before us. With the power of faith, our words become commands that cause the daemon to cower and cringe in terror. I could meet my enemies unarmed without a shred of fear in my chest, for I know that the Emperor watches over me and guides my hand. So let them come. We shall show them what the power of faith can do."+++ (Brother Captain Stern)

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Re: Psycannons, Incinerators, Thunder Hammers oh my!

Post by DarkRonin on Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:49 pm

I'm not too sure which model gives the best bitz for TH/SS but I'd have to say that the SM Assault Terminator Sergeant has a nice hammer and shield. I split the shield between both my own GM and a my Death Watch Chapter Master (Though had to get another hammer so he would have the TH/SS combo himself and a Jump Pack).

The Warstore is a good place to take a look at bits and see what kind really suits what your looking for.

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Re: Psycannons, Incinerators, Thunder Hammers oh my!

Post by DarkRonin on Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:51 pm

Actually I have a question about the Storm Shields. Since I myself haven't used them yet as far as my Grey Knights go, but here it is. Since the ruling of our Storm Shields say that they count as an additional close combat weapon. Does this mean that our Terminators actually benefit from a +1 to their attack or does it mean that they have to be decked out with two hammers to get the bonus?

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Re: Psycannons, Incinerators, Thunder Hammers oh my!

Post by Primarch on Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:05 pm

Our storm shields don't provide a bonus attack because although they are one handed weapons they are not categorised as close combat weapons, which is the requirement for a bonus attack (that is 2 close combat weapons).

Also in the rulebook thunder hammers, powerfists and lightning claws provide bonus attacks with another of the same weapon e.g. two THs

I used lysander for the storm shield on my GM, but in hindsight the SS from the space marine assault terminators (sergent and normal) look better.

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Re: Psycannons, Incinerators, Thunder Hammers oh my!

Post by Zealadin on Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:43 pm

You don't gain the bonus attack because of the TH rule, before the new rulebook you did gain the bonus attack from the SS, well according to alot of the veteran GK players at least.

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Re: Psycannons, Incinerators, Thunder Hammers oh my!

Post by Rivan on Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:46 pm

That's correct, regardless of the pro and con argument before regarding the SS, the new TH rules nullify any possible extra attack.

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"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: Psycannons, Incinerators, Thunder Hammers oh my!

Post by Darkensi on Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:23 am

Just checking but if you use the GK Termy rule they get a free swap to TH/SS...can you take two TH and SS to get the extra attack on say a BC or GM?

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Re: Psycannons, Incinerators, Thunder Hammers oh my!

Post by NemesisForce on Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:34 am

Unlike a Combat Shield the SS takes up the whole hand/arm so you couldn't have two on the same model. I would also think you could only swap free items once.

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Re: Psycannons, Incinerators, Thunder Hammers oh my!

Post by Grimhack on Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:54 am

you could replace the free stormshield to get a one wound model with two thunderhammers... It would still be slightly expensive.

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Re: Psycannons, Incinerators, Thunder Hammers oh my!

Post by Rivan on Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:04 pm

Yup. Technically a BC of a GKT squad can get a free TH and SS. You just pay an extra 25 pts to get another TH and you drop the SS. You'll have a BC that has 4 base attack, 5 on the charge Very Happy

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"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: Psycannons, Incinerators, Thunder Hammers oh my!

Post by Constantine on Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:27 pm

Rivan wrote:Yup. Technically a BC of a GKT squad can get a free TH and SS. You just pay an extra 25 pts to get another TH and you drop the SS. You'll have a BC that has 4 base attack, 5 on the charge Very Happy

That is pretty cool Cool
It makes me sing thunder struck in my head by ACDC Twisted Evil

C

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Re: Psycannons, Incinerators, Thunder Hammers oh my!

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