1000pt GKT focusing list

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1000pt GKT focusing list

Post by exsonic on Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:22 pm

Hi, i just tried a GKT concept 1000pt DH army.

HQ
GM w/ psycannon + 4 retinue GKTs - 354 pts

ELITE
BC + GKTx4 w/psycannon - 270 pts

TR
1) ISTx5 w/ 2 melta + 3 krak
Dedicated: Rhino w/ Extra armor - 146 pts
2) ISTx5 - 50 pts

HS
GKDreadnought w/ TLLC + ML - 140pts

Total: 960 pts

- This is my first time to write a list, so welcome any correction. GKTs concept list.
- I just wanted to use GKTs as much as I can in 1000pts. 10 GKTs in 1000pts. That is the point. if anyone has better idea, plz, welcome any idea~
- Troops are expandable, concept of throwaway, hope to make something burn with Rhino and 2 melta
- Foot army with no transports and GKTs are slow. Could teleport homer be a solution? How could I use the extra 40 pts?
- My local group memebers are playing sm, tau, eldar, necron, and favoring capture and control. Does GKTs would work? I know it will probably not good. GKTs are small in number and will easily overrrunned.
- Welcome any idea~!! Plz help me

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Re: 1000pt GKT focusing list

Post by Nausaden on Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:40 pm

I love the idea of using more GKT's in a list, even at a 1000 points the sound cool. They sadly are NOT scoring units, so for objectives they can merely contest; not control.

Unfortunately, Tau, Eldar, and SM are usually heavy on AP 1-AP2 weapons. Which means Terminators need to rely on their 5+ Invuln instead of their rockin 2+ armor save. So if your foe knows your bringing in lots of Termies, they'll be trying to use templates and powerful guns on them. This is why so many people prefer ferrying their precious Termies in Land Raiders, foot slogging them is usually a very bad idea.

Teleporting them to the field via deep strike is very risky, but can seriously pay off. As our teleport homer is different then the current, it may take a moment to figure it with your opponent how it works.

Again, I love the idea of Grey Knight Terminator focus. It won't really work too well in a lot of games, but maybe some fun objective games that don't require you to capture would satisfy. Terminators can't really be at full use in 1000 points; 2000 and up though its fun to take in more squads of them.

I dream of using 10 man Terminator squads Very Happy Aside from being a big target for blast templates, AWESOME for assaulting I imagine.

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Re: 1000pt GKT focusing list

Post by MJSwasey on Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:21 am

well it's certainly, as advertised, focused on the GKT. You may want to make a few changes though.

Lets start with the things that don't follow the codex and MUST be changed. First of all i'm assuming you mean melta guns instead of melta grenades, as regular storm troopers can't have melta grenades. Also, the whole squad must take the grenades (it's purchased as a unit upgrade, with a cost of 2 points per model in the unit) so you have to have 5 krak grenades or 0. Secondly, i count a 5 ST 2 meltagun 5 krak grenade rhino with extra armor squad as costing only 135 points, and that has two more grenades then your squad. you may want to check on the price.

Speaking of price, i assume you want the psycannon on the GM? if you do, he has to buy his from the armory, so it's 5 more points then if you took it with the squad (your price is the squad price)

Our teleport homer doesn't work at all under the current rules. Sad, I know.


Now on to the list as to how well it will do.

Somewhat poorly. But don't let that stop you if it's what you want to play, GKT are ALOT of fun. I sometimes whip out a "as many GKT as possible" list just to indoctrinate people to the devistation that they are. it's just that you can't mind loosing with a list like that.

Here's why- your troop squads are easily killed on first or second turn, MAYBE third, and it now becomes impossible to win the first two mission types, and your already loosing at kill points too, as GK are not known for ranged FP

Your two vehicles will go down quickly, as they are the only two armor values in the list at 11 and 12 armor value and are not packing smoke or have any decent units nearby to give cover.

from there, the opponent will easily kill your two ist squads without them ever getting to damage anything. 5 guardsmen can do NOTHING without proper support.

You will be left playing 10 terminators by turn 3. These will be tough to kill, but alot of armies nowadays pack melta, plasma, etc, so they will get shot up as the approach or ran away from as the deep strike, as you have no other units to put pressure on the enemy.

GKT are a fantastic anvil or hammer, in that you can drive things toward them or use them to steer enemies into other squads. However, a GKT squad by itself will just be expensive storm bolters constantly chasing things.

If you want a more competitive List, perhaps something like this could suit you, while keeping a similar style
997 points
HQ
BC w/ 4 termies
EL
BC w/ 4 termies
Troop
9 PAGK, targeter
5 IST w/ 2 meltaguns Rhino Smoke Extra Armor
5 IST w/ 2 meltaguns Rhino Smoke Extra Armor

This is not a pro list by any means, but it lets you play with 2 squads of terminators in a semi competitive fashion, and still lets you play with those IST you wanted to try out. The idea is to use the GK to give the transports cover one turn, the smoke to give the transports and GK the cover the next, and then your battle line is upon him. GKT's can deep strike in (my favorite option in this type of list), move up the flank (good for restricting more mobile armies from running away from your main charge), or travel with the main army for one HELL of a punch (i'd only send one squad with the main army)

Just make sure to use plenty of cover against any weapon that pierces armor against any GK unit, and remember shrouding. I find the targeter great for beginners games, as it really helps you to judge the distances for the upcoming turns. The 10 IST need armor (look at IG lists, you'll be hard pressed to find any melta squad without a vehicle), and a bigger, tougher unit to support it. Plus this list now has three scoring units, all in a vehicle or with t4 3+ saves.

The list lacks ranged firepower, but that happens in an all termie list. With GK, you'll find at smaller points values you are really limited in developing an "all comer" list, as you just cant afford that many units, and with multiple termie squads you have to sacrifice. Sacrificing range firepower isn't that huge because ours isn't that great anyway, and we can destroy most vehicles in assualt.

you will ALWAYS have less models in a GK army (and with GKT, well, outnumbered by A LOT.), so don't be dissapointed if you loose your first few games, as the DH codex has a decent learning curve that you definitely need to get used to. In fact, that might be a good reason to try out your first list or other things/units you might not normally do, sin

Whatever you decide to do, have fun and good luck learning the might that is GK!

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Re: 1000pt GKT focusing list

Post by MJSwasey on Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:28 am

Excuse my bad double posting ettiqute, i couldn't bear to make my above post any longer after looking at how wordy i was.


Nausaden wrote:
I dream of using 10 man Terminator squads Very Happy Aside from being a big target for blast templates, AWESOME for assaulting I imagine.

I once played the crazy list of
BC+9GKT
BC+9GKT
8 PAGK 2 psycannons
8 PAGK 2 psycannons
Thats 1500 points exactly. luckily we rolled kill points. You can see the plan there, as if I scored at least 5 kill points I was garunteed a tie. I did score 5, and temies lived, so it was a win, but it's a really dicy list to take if your opponent is mobile.

AVOID the excecutioner wth sponsons. or at least run the termies out of their little deep striker death circle when they arrive

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Re: 1000pt GKT focusing list

Post by exsonic on Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:11 am

Nausaden // I was always thinking of these GKTs focused army in my mind, although i knew that it should be tasky things. Maybe next time, if i have a chance, i'll try 2000pt GKT army. Thanks~

MJSwasey // Thanks to really detailed reply, brother and i'll keep in mind that all. And your 1500 pt list sounds really nice and enjoyable~! Thanks~

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Re: 1000pt GKT focusing list

Post by Nausaden on Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:39 am

Very Happy Awesome list Brother MJS, for kill points I am gonna love trying that out with all these new GKT's I'm grabbing for Xmas.

It's always great to read into MJS very detailed and well thought out tactics, he certainly knows what he's talking about Brother exsonic.

Side Note: Do you think you could describe what you'd do with your two GK Psycannon squads at the start? I assume that they high tail it to high ground and take some much needed protection. Then have them cover the GKT squads?


Last edited by Nausaden on Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:49 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: 1000pt GKT focusing list

Post by Grimhack on Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:39 am

Well today I played a funny 1750 pts a side game with 3 sides. I used 3 squads of PAGK, a GKGM with 4 terminators and a brothercaptain with 4 terminators. And a crusader to wrap things up.
At the end of the game I still had most knights but lost almost all terminators, including the grandmaster. But they really held off anything that was thrown against them, even killing a seercouncil on bikes.
My point is, 10 terminators are fun but you really need some support that can do stuff of their own. Because footslogging them is dangerous, landraiders are pricey in low points battles and deepstriking usually makes them sitting ducks for a turn.

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Re: 1000pt GKT focusing list

Post by MJSwasey on Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:25 pm

Thats generally true across the board with a few major exceptions- one unit may be powerful and fun, but if you focus your army around it you'll lack depth and therefore be easier to beat. But noone said you couldn't do it every once and a while for fun! And it's great to try new lists, like grimhack did, to get a better feel for the capabilities, limitations, and synergies of each unit.

Nausaden wrote:Very Happy Awesome list Brother MJS, for kill points I am gonna love trying that out with all these new GKT's I'm grabbing for Xmas.

It's always great to read into MJS very detailed and well thought out tactics, he certainly knows what he's talking about Brother exsonic.

Side Note: Do you think you could describe what you'd do with your two GK Psycannon squads at the start? I assume that they high tail it to high ground and take some much needed protection. Then have them cover the GKT squads?

Thank you for the high praise, Nausaden. Coming from another brother who knows, that means a lot!

As with any squad or army, what you do with the troops depends on who you are facing. I find against Tau, Guard, or a 12+ armor mech army I do better keeping the psycannons in reserve (remember, in normal missions you can keep ANY unit in normal reserve), as they will either be way outgunned or won't be able to do much, and that way the enemy doesn't get to shoot at half my army the first two turns then the rest the next few, instead they have to deal with it all when it comes on without getting the chance to weaken it. YMMV, as having the psycannons crack a vehicle for the termies when they come down can be a game winner.

Against short ranged/low armor armies I stick them somewhere their 36" will hit just past the enemy but shrouding may still be usefuly, either together or apart depending on if i want to split the enemy to deep strike all my troops into one side or clump it so the termies can massacre it all. They don't always need to be in cover if the enemy has all meltas or no real low ap.

In either case, you want to hit rapid response troops first and APC's second with these squads. anything on bikes or jetpacks that have power/low ap weapons are a real threat to your termies wherever they come in, so you want to eliminate their ability to respond to your termies. next i crack transports so the termies can get into CC easier.

But the above is just my 2 cents Smile

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Re: 1000pt GKT focusing list

Post by Nausaden on Thu Dec 31, 2009 6:48 pm

Well said Brother MJS, very helpful tactics to keep in mind Smile

I did get those new GKT's, and am itching to start trying them all out Very Happy

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