1500 competitive

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1500 competitive

Post by Cornix on Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:06 am

ok so i want to know what u think of this list

HQ: BC w holocaust 280
Terminators w incinrator
Runs in LRC

Troops 1: 9 PAGK w incinrator 265
runs in LR

Troops 2: 9 PAGK w 2 psycannons 300
Runs behind and shoots

Troops 3: 7 IST w 2 melta guns 148
Rhino w smoke and EA

HS 1: LRC w smoke 258

HS 2: LR w smoke and EA 258

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Re: 1500 competitive

Post by Zealadin on Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:14 am

Looks quite interesting, its a small army for 1500 points, but your going to be mobile and flexible, and used right it could be pretty deadly.
Its alot of eggs in one basket though, and not sure how it will compete against hordes

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Re: 1500 competitive

Post by Rivan on Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:02 am

3 points to consider:

1. Personally, since you will obviously try to get your HQ into CC sooner than later, I'd add another GKT to beef them up. You'd be surprised at how 5 GKTs can be whittled down fast.

2. Also, I don't think a BC is tough enough to go against most HQs nowadays, specially if they have a retinue or command squad (just think of a SM captain w/ command squad: at I5 & WS6, the captain will probably strike down 2 of your HQ squad before they can even strike). So, I don't mind running slightly smaller GK squads if I can beef up my HQ unit who will probably do the heavy fighting.

3. Lastly, if you really want to stick to a 5-man HQ squad, then I would probably get a 2nd LR instead for more AT capability.

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"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 1500 competitive

Post by Cornix on Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:06 am

Ok revampted it

HQ: Grand master 344
4 Terminators w incinrator
Runs in LRC

Troops 1: 9 PAGK w incinrator 265
runs in LR

Troops 2: 7 PAGK w 2 psycannons 250
Runs behind and shoots

Troops 3: 6 IST w 2 melta guns 138
Rhino w smoke and EA

HS 1: LRC w smoke 258

HS 2: LR w smoke and EA 258

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Re: 1500 competitive

Post by Rivan on Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:37 am

List definitely looks a lot more competitive Very Happy

Troops 1 should cost only 260 pts. However, even then, I think you are still at 1503 pts. So, you might need to take out 1 smoke launcher.

Personally, I'd probably take out the SL for the LRC. Even after moving at cruising speed, I'd rather let loose w/ the hurricane bolters AND either the MM or the AC instead of triggering smoke. That's just me though Very Happy

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"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 1500 competitive

Post by Cornix on Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:43 am

I thought because its in GWS Erretica, we can fire a weapon with power of the machine spirit and then pop the smoke.

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Re: 1500 competitive

Post by Rivan on Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:46 am

I'm pretty sure triggering SL negates our ability to shoot that phase, even w/ POTM spirit. Although, based on the wording of the POTM spirit rule, I can see your point. A vehicle that suffered a "crew shaken" or "crew stunned" result can still fire one weapon, so why not after triggering SL? scratch

Just for the heck of it, I fired off that question to the GW rulesboyz to see what they say Very Happy

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"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 1500 competitive

Post by NemesisForce on Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:55 am

Popping smoke means you forfeit all shooting, regular or not. PotMS works only with how far you have moved and wether or not you are shaken/stunned. Yes, there is a chance to loophole this rule but be warned this will be considered by many to be unsportsmanlike.

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Re: 1500 competitive

Post by SandMarauder on Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:49 pm

so when would you even want to pop smoke with an LRC?

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Re: 1500 competitive

Post by Rivan on Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:41 pm

Possibly in an end game where your LRC is contesting an objective or is carrying a troops squad and claiming an objective and you just want to make sure you don't get blown up? That's one situation I can think of... scratch

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"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 1500 competitive

Post by Xterminator2 on Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:06 pm

Its a very promissing list, you have a pretty decent model count and reminds me of a list i used to run but i had a dread too. Couple things id like to comment is that i never take that much wargear because at the cost of a psycannon you could have another PAGK you could b fielding since were already outnumered to begin with.

So i like to keep my wargear at a minimun so i usually only grab melta bombs for my justicars. But everyone has different play styles so this is just my POV.

Im a fan of the Ist squad as you can see in my 1850 GK list i posted almost a month ago, it gives the army a little more punch and its a threat that opponents cnt ignore. It is very effective when used right.

i would probably even ur squads to 8-8 rather then 9-7 u may have a specific reason for doing so but im not sure what it is so let me know if u do.

the list atm i have for 1500 is very radical yet effective if played right

i field 2 LRs and 1 LRC ( yes!! 3 LRs in a 1500 pt ) 2 squads of 7 GK (including Justicar w/ meltas) and a GM w/ 4 termies its crazy but it works, Havent lost with it yet but i mainly play against CSM and eldar. I hope this helps

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Re: 1500 competitive

Post by Cornix on Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:23 am

I have split the PAGKs into 9-7, because the 9 will be CC while the 7 will be shooting

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Re: 1500 competitive

Post by Primarch on Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:17 am

I thought you were'nt allowed to give PAGKs and GK Hero/retinues personal transports. Just saying that the transport option only appears for Inquisitor Lords and Stormtroopers in the codex.

I hope I'm wrong though, because I really want GK to get dedicated transports

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Re: 1500 competitive

Post by Rivan on Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:34 am

Primarch wrote:I thought you were'nt allowed to give PAGKs and GK Hero/retinues personal transports. Just saying that the transport option only appears for Inquisitor Lords and Stormtroopers in the codex.

I hope I'm wrong though, because I really want GK to get dedicated transports

I believe Cornix just meant his PAGK squad and his GM w/ retinue are embarked in the two tanks, but the LRC and LR are still HS choices Very Happy

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"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 1500 competitive

Post by MJSwasey on Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:51 am

Thats correct, if the LR is a heavy choice, they can still ride in it, it's just not dedicated. He's just letting us know his intent for them to start the game in them.

just for fun- what if we imagines the list without LRs? two land raiders at 1500 eats over half your points, and probably loses alot of comp points in a tourney. Just use your imagination and bear with me here-

if you ditched the LRs you'd have 516 points to play with. 188 points buys you a mounted inquisitor with 3 multimeltas and two sages, oh so useful against first turn dread drop pods. you now have 328 points. You can buy 1-2 more squads of PAGK, depending on if you take some from the other squads or not, or a Dread and PAGK. You actually gain in anti tank capability, and if you remember that your LR's are probably mostly used for getting your troops into combat in that list, you can probably use a cheaper PAGK squad as a screen that may not even die, which you can send the last 1-2 alive guys towards an objective.

Also, the extra pagk and/or your termie squad can deep strike.

In other words, if a LR is being used as anti tank and troop protection, why not take awesome anti tank and more troops instead? at worst you loose a troop and you still have the same number as in the other list, and at best your capturing more objectives and melta-ing a heck of a lot more.

I find opponents have a hard time shooting at a smoked vehicle in the back when they have 27+ PAGK and 5-6 termies, all at s6, running straight at them.

another idea is same thing, keep melta inquis and take 2 dreads, for anti mech abilities.





As a final thought, even if you disagree with the other ideas (to be honest i was just throwing them out there as "what ifs"), something that i find to be true is Brother captain stern pays for himself in so many ways over a GM that the only reason i take GM anymore is for psychic hood goodness. cheaper, free holocaust, free hammerhand, and the reroll is a godsend on saves and armor pen charts. remember it's per player turn, not full go around, so if you reroll the last roll that will be done in a turn, you opponent can't use his back and looses it!

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Re: 1500 competitive

Post by Xterminator2 on Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:22 am

Thats not a bad idea but the reason i hate inquisitor squads is that if u take multi meltas since they are heavys u cnt move and shoot and if your in a rhino and the rhino has moved you are still considered to have moved. So this limits ur mobility.

If meltas are what you are pushing for MJ then the IST w/ 2 meltas in a rhino is the way to go

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Re: 1500 competitive

Post by Rivan on Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:51 pm

Xterminator2 wrote:Thats not a bad idea but the reason i hate inquisitor squads is that if u take multi meltas since they are heavys u cnt move and shoot and if your in a rhino and the rhino has moved you are still considered to have moved. So this limits ur mobility.

If meltas are what you are pushing for MJ then the IST w/ 2 meltas in a rhino is the way to go

I agree. Unless you can afford 1 shooting phase just setting up your multi-meltas where you disembarked, regular meltas are the way to go. I know they have less range but you just have to make good use of the rhino's movement and pop smoke or something.

It's the same situation w/ my SoB army's mounted retributor squad. Heavy flamers were a better choice since an immolator that moves 12" and can still fire its TWLHFs and everyone jumps out and adds 4 more HFs!!! "Burn baby, burn!!!" lol!

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"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 1500 competitive

Post by NemesisForce on Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:08 pm

Multi-meltas. The most useless best infantry anti-tank weapon in the game. You rarely ever get to shoot them.

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Re: 1500 competitive

Post by MJSwasey on Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:37 pm

well, you DO count as stationary when you take the free anti deep strike choice.

I didn't think of the multi meltas as run forward and shoot up tanks. I think GK's do an awesome job killing tanks at under 12 inches, and they do it by assualting. A three melta squad in the rear protected by armor would make a fierce barrier to any dreads trying to advance, deep strikers, or enemy vehicles trying to run to an objective though.

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Re: 1500 competitive

Post by Rivan on Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:43 pm

MJSwasey wrote:well, you DO count as stationary when you take the free anti deep strike choice.

I didn't think of the multi meltas as run forward and shoot up tanks. I think GK's do an awesome job killing tanks at under 12 inches, and they do it by assualting. A three melta squad in the rear protected by armor would make a fierce barrier to any dreads trying to advance, deep strikers, or enemy vehicles trying to run to an objective though.

Hmmm, good point. I can see a MM squad in cover as an effective stationary barrier.

What I didn't know was that your unit counts as stationary on your free shot via mystics. That's awesome! cheers

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"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." --Sun Tzu (from ancient Earth)

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Re: 1500 competitive

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