So... any ideas about who we really are?

How many here have read the original Reals of Chaos stuff?

Where do the Iluminati fit into all this?

The illuminati doesnt fit in at all in the GK fluff (not entirely true).

The whole matter of illuminati is a debated one with some fluff telling A and some telling B.
In the Dark Heresy fluff for instance illuminati are not even mentioned and the "process" that makes an illuminati has it´s ends turned upside down.
However other direct fluff about the illuminati tell of them as being the ultimate "good guys" but for funs sake they have also been placed with a sinister agenda that is far from nice.

The really cool thing is that illuminati are hinted about in the very GK codex. The very leadership of the malleous might be illuminati influenced. If that is true it is a very good thing.

Well, as long as deamons are dying, i'm cool!

It says in the GK codex that the GK were founded in secret by the emperor himself during the heresy. so perhaps they were made after Horus turned (obviously) but not necessarily after his death.

Sorry to bring this back to life, I find all this stuff absolutely interesting, (especially stuck at tafe).

I think some of the most important questions relating to GK are:

Why are they uncorruptable?
Could they have come from the emporers gene seed or would a lesser source have done?
What kind of influence does the people chosen to become GK's have on their eventual character?

In the Grey Knight novel the GK's all have their own personalities, likes and dislikes, etc, and I've heard alot of SM complain about this due to their beleif that SM (and therefore GK) are not human at all. I have never understood this theory, but its hotly argued in alot of forums.

And funnily enough the typical SM players like to use sources to prove their arguements, often using a single line of fluff/lore as justification, while saying the rest of the paragraph on the same page stating something else entirely is wrong.... or trying to use something written in a BL novel over codex lore (which I find unacceptable).

But there seems to be two main areas of thought: Some people are naturally uncorruptable, OR anyone is corruptable, except perhaps super powerful individuals, such as the emporer and probably other godly figures (this seems likely as the eldar gods, who where really just a super powerful race where not corrupted, but instead where destroyed by the daemons).
Also alot of daemon lore states daemon 'gods' are just the most powerful daemons in existance that have evolved over millenium to be the most powerful, and therefore leaders.

Now if some people can be naturally incorruptable then it would seem from GK codex lore, that it would be related to having psychic abilities, and its possible the GK initiation process is simply to find these before the gene seed is implanted, creating a GK.

OR the strong psychic abilities are part of a impenetrable defence that a fully fledged GK has, combined with the benefits of the gene seed AND the matrix under his skin.

*Note: The matrix that all GK have of holy wards must certainly HELP a GK remain uncorrupted, but logically CANNOT be the only thing doing this job, otherwise, why not put them in all SM to avoid further corruption?

So to quote the latest batman: "You either die a hero, or live long enough to become the villain" (not an exact quote, but awesome movie). Now is it possible that those who remain uncorrupted (normally, ie non GK) simply die before it happens, or are never really near the influence of corruption?

Personally I think its probable that there are unique individuals (possibly descendants of the emporer's line) who have a natural resistance (possibly immunity) to the corrupting influences of the warp and daemons.

Why? Well because the emporer wasn't corrupted, and surely the daemons would see corrupting him as THE easiest way of destroying humanity, one of the major forcing set against them.
Also there are other individuals in the universe who seem able to remain untouched by corruption, my example of this is the eldar laughing god, who also extends this protection to the souls of his harlequins. (And he is one of the last Old Ones in the galaxy)

The most logical answer is that they must have come from the emporer, OR a gene seed almost directly related to him, that was found to contain his immunity to the effects of corruption, the warp and daemons. Its certainly plausible that ONE of the primarchs or Custodes may have been found to have this quality, and therefore been used for the creation of the GK, (because lets be honest, why not make the GK super powerful like primarchs if they came straight from the emporer and are uncorruptable, it would be a win win situation?)

Also the personal strength of the individual who becomes a GK seems to be very important, only the most powerful ever finally become a GK, and succeed or survive long.
For this reason I beleive that some part of the individual must be present in the final product and that the people who succeed as GK are naturally people who would likely become hero's (not on the scale of the emperor or primarchs) naturally given the right circumstances.

I'm interested to hear what you guys think on this because in a few other forums I was heavily flamed by various SM lovers who claim a few things - SM aren't human, don't really have personalities, aren't at all based on the individual created from, are just killing machines, etc etc etc.

Now the way I see it is, GK are the best of the best, they are the people who would become Hero's, while SM are just normal exceptional humans who would do stuff well, but just aren't up there in the same way...

Sorry for the long post - alot of this is just conjecture due to me slowly reading the black library novels

Ok, stating this as a GK player on a GK forum is probably like shooting one self in the foot.

But i dont see GK as an "uber" form of the normal Space Marine. All Space Marine chapters have their own speicality and traits, and they are all bred to be heroes of mankind.

Space Wolves excel at ferocious close combat, Imperial Fists are natural beseigers etc etc.

Grey Knights are "simply" Space Marines that are bred, trained (and perhaps a bit more pimped out than other chapters) to fight deamons! Having psychic abilities is just part of this.

This is what all the old fluff states, and the new fluff has done nothing to change that. The fluff also clearly states that all Marines remain somewhat individualistic, adorning their armour with symbols of their home planet or adopting a "personal" banner. Dont make me go home to parents attic and start searching out the Rogue Trader books! ;0)

Welcome to the forums!

Hmm thats quite an interesting perspective, I've only been doing warhammer for about 8 years and can't say I've read any earlier fluff about the GK's.

I see GK as being better than SM, but like you say they are specialised, and as such their role in most conflicts is simply fighting daemons against which they excel.
Their better gear is due to the importance of their job, but the latest codex does say "surpassing even their brother space marines in skill and ability" so I have to admit I do see them as 'better' than SM, but thats both based on my own imagination of what I think a GK is, and my dislike for normal SM. Probably more of the latter.

They are also incorruptable, which certainly (in the 40k universe) is something unique and awesome.

I agree with the individualistic nature of the SM (and therefore the GK's too) but have come up against alot of abrasive SM players who seem to beleive that SM are some kind of killing machine gods, devoid of personality or anything excepting the driving force to kill and win.
I'd be interested to see some proof thats not the case just to prove them wrong

I think they took the emperors dna, added garros and qruzes gene seed and implanted it into some of the Custodians to make the grey knights. However they werent made officially til the second founding. Until then they were another branch of the Custodians.

There is nothing I ever came across that supports this, however, I always figured we were an evolution of the Custodian Guard who I also believe to be of the Emperors Gene Seed. It only makes sense that the Emperor in his infinite wisdom would make his personal guard the very best he could. The very best he had was his own Gene Seed.

I'd agree with this because we see how the daemon gods obviously viewed the emporer as the greatest threat in a long time, which brings the question why?
The fact he was able to make uncorruptable soldiers for his cause is certainly a clue!

Our gene-seed comes from the very emporers flesh himself it is metioned in Ben Counter's Novel "GREY KNIGHTS"