Kharn the Betrayer

So my friend/rival was recently bragging about Kharn the Betrayer, as he ordered him and will be adding him to his 1K list to challenge me. He stated that he's got Gorechild, and it always hits on 2+ups, as well as having some sort of ability that makes FORCE WEAPONS COUNT AS NORMAL WEAPONS??!? I have not heard of him having that, but if that's true would that affect Nemesis Force weapons?

Aside from that, 4 Wound initiative 5 Str+4 etc. means he's going to be a nasty brute to take down. With that one seal wargear we can lower his initiative by 1, so Grey Knights can hit him at the same time and the Grandmaster/Brother Captain can strike before him, and since his invuln is now +5 chances are we can slay him outright. A good bet's probably just bombarding him with storm bolters or psycannons if possible, but if he gets up close I'd like to have confidence that my Knights can defeat him.

Brothers, please rely everything you know about Kharn, and any methods you have of putting this psycho down.

[quote]I'd like to have confidence that my Knights can defeat him.
[code]

You really don't want your GKs to get into combat with him, one of my gaming friends often uses him in his world eaters army and the only time I've actually managed to kill him has been when I managed to take out the transport with him in an early turn and targetted him and his unit with everything I could until he eventually went down. (Since then he's been moved into a LR and I haven't managed to kill him before he gets to grips with my GKS ).

Don't forget that he has frag grenades so being in cover doesn't benefit your PAGK and kharn will go through a small unit of them by himself with if you let him get into an assault with them as Gorechild gives him +2 str and hits on a 2+ (also gives a an extra D6 to his armour penetration rolls) as well as counting as a power weapon. The rules state that 'force weapons count as power weapons against him' so you won't get to instant kill him with the GM either.

He does however have a special rule that can sometimes work against your oponent - "any of kharn's to hit rolls of 1 in close combat have hit their own side..." though this only works if he's in a combat that has other models of his own army in and not when he's fighting alone.

Next time I face him I'm considering raider rushing the unit with kharn using the LRC, GM (+ sacred incense) and termie retinue. If I can get kharn out of the LR, and his unit is small enough, hopefully the hurricane bolters (12 shots, rerolled) + assault cannon and melta may reduce the squad enough for the GM + retinue to be able to beat up the remainder and kharn. Other than that, your safest way to face him is to shoot him and his unit up from turn 1 with everything you can spare and don't forget to keep moving away from him during your movement phase.

Oh - he also acts as a personal icon so can bring down those lesser daemons that can assault the turn they appear (pray that rites of exorcism will keep them at bay until you've dealt with kharn!! )

Good luck

PS: Anyone else got a better way of killing him because I know I'd be grateful as well if it helps get rid of kharn!!

I think Khargor nailed the two most effective ways. A GM, Sacred Incense and getting the charge in first gives you a vastly improved chance if you fail to take out his transport early and pick him apart while footslogging.

Is Kharn still immune to instant death? I remember back in 4th edition I splatted him with a demolisher cannon from my Leman Russ.

>_< Darn, I was hopeing the Grand Master would beat Kharn straight up. Accursed insane traitor...

And in 5th edition I think he's not immune to instant death, he just makes all force weapons power weapons. He's got a +5 invuln, but that's only so good.

With Kharn given a -1 initiative, and shooting at him until that last moment when I can assault him, perhaps my Grand Master and retinue can wipe him out...

note however that it means the GM won't get to insta-gib, not that NFW won't give +2 or count as power weapons etc.

Nausaden wrote:>_< Darn, I was hopeing the Grand Master would beat Kharn straight up. Accursed insane traitor...

And in 5th edition I think he's not immune to instant death, he just makes all force weapons power weapons. He's got a +5 invuln, but that's only so good.

With Kharn given a -1 initiative, and shooting at him until that last moment when I can assault him, perhaps my Grand Master and retinue can wipe him out...

how can you -1 I him? He isn't a daemon


I still wouldn't use GK retinue against him unless you have to, i mean 5 attacks hitting before you, hitting on 2's, wounding on 2's and you get a 5+ inv?

thats... 2.3 dead GKT before you even get to swing. In return if you had say a GKGM + 5 GKT

You've lost 2 say, so 6 attacks hitting on 4's, 3 hits wounding on 2's, 2.5 wounds, 1.667 unsaved wounds.

GKGM 4 attacks hitting on 4's, 2 hits wounding on 2's, 1.666 wounds, 1.111 wounds

so in total 2.8 wounds.

So yes you've killed him but lost two GKT in the process, if he is with a unit of bezerkers (which he would be) they will be striking at the same time as you... but the answer is GKT squad vs. him you win, but if he has more stuff you never know



~ note however that it means the GM won't get to insta-gib, not that NFW won't give +2 or count as power weapons etc.

gil galed wrote:

how can you -1 I him? He isn't a daemon

Sacred incense works on all chaos models, not just demons. And I agree that shooting him down will be the less costly way of taking him out. If not, ASSAULTING him w/ a GM w/ SI and a retinue of termies is still the second best alternative. You will lose some GKTs (unless your GM hits and wounds with all his attacks and luckily takes him out) but the follow-up attacks from the termies should take out the remainder of his wounds. I can actually speak from experience as my GM w/ 3 GKTs assaulted Kharn attached to a unit of berserkers. GM did 1 wound on him, then Kharn attacked simultaneously w/ the GKTs and killed all 3 plus 1 wound on the GM but also got killed himself. Berserkers (attacking at initiative 3) attacked my GM w/ all their attacks but my GM saved ALL of them (emperor be praised). Next turn, my BC and his 3 GKTs joined the fight and "poof!", no more berserkers

How can Kharn remove +2 S on our weapons?

They are not force weapons.

The nemesis force weapon ability will be removed from the gm's weapon if kharn has a remove psychic powers thing but why the +2?

If I'm not mistaken, Kharn is just immune to force weapon attacks (treat as normal power weapons) but we still wound him normally on a 2+ (STR 6 VS T 4). Although I do believe he has str 5 so he wounds us on 3+. At least that's what the C: CSM says.

Kharne the Betrayer = HQ Choice = Meh

Just keep away from him. Take him out at long range with a couple of Land Raiders, focus on grabbing the objectives, and don't change your whole battle plan just to take out one model.

Focus on the easier to kill units and if you really need to, find an expendible unit or 2 to tie him up with

Just my 2 cents

I actually had to play my rival in my tournament a while ago. I had a long struggle; and 1 squad of my Knights had been wiped out. But low and behold; my Grandmaster and retinue DESTROYED Kharn and his large group of Berzerkers.

After pounding them with all the shots from my Grandmaster and PAGK's, the Dreadknought actually dealing with the Defiler *Thank you, Lascannon!* I managed to strike before he did by denying him the charge *+Sacred incense on GM*. I nailed him with my GM's Retinue; wiped his sorry arse out. I didn't lose a single terminator, as he simply failed all those terrible invulns.

Story short, my friend has since given up on using Chaos Space Marines as his army to play me, and has spent 100$'s of moolah on a large mostly Harlequin/wraithlord army. I also won the tournament, and used the prize money to buy myself a Landraider

Thanks for ally our tips again Brothers; everyone really did help me in the fight against Chaos.

Great to hear!!! It's actually funny but I do hear a lot of players say "What? You're using Grey Knights? Then I'm not using chaos then!" LOL!

Exactly. We don't even have much to use against Chaos; a sacred incense and sacred hull are nice but not much else. All the same, its good to have players now building lists to destroy my Knights XD